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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who was being unreasonable here?

89 replies

ScottishSue · 15/09/2017 23:55

Background: I work in my local primary school as a part time midday supervisor and have done for a couple of years (earning a tiny amount of money). Over the last year I have also been doing a distance learning course, training to be a level 3 teaching assistant specialising in SEN, and have done all my practical work in the same school. So since January I have done one full day every week in school (totally unpaid), assisting the teachers in whatever ways I am needed - I ask for very little in return, just for the teacher I work with to read through and sign the practical written work I have done. Prior to starting the course, I also volunteered one morning a week listening to children read and had done that continuously for 5 years. I have also volunteered in many other ways over the years - school trips, summer and xmas fairs, helping with craft or sports activities, etc.

School term started last week and I knew there was a whole school day trip to a local event planned for this week and I volunteered as a helper for that on top of my usual day in school. I made it clear from the start that I would be happy to do this if I could support one of the children with additional needs as then that would also help me with the section of the course on SEN on a general experience level. This was understood and accepted at the time by the Head. On the day in question I arrived and went out to the coach with the class that included the child I thought I would be supporting but just before I got on board, I was told by the Head that I was needed with a different class - one with no SEN children - and to get on the other coach. I was a bit taken aback and said, 'But the plan was that I was supporting X...' and she told me that X had enough support already, that the other group needed an extra adult, and that she had thought I was coming along in order to help them out? This last comment in particular said quite angrily and all was said in front of other staff members.

I had always had a good relationship with and huge respect for this person (and had thought the respect was mutual) and this felt high handed and uncalled for - as if I was only in it for what I could get and was being given a telling off for having a bad attitude. I understand that adult to child ratios must be carefully worked out and that changes may need to be made on the day. If she had said - sorry, it's not going to work as we had planned - do you mind going with the other group? - that would have been fine. I would have been disappointed at a lost opportunity but accepted it.

I'm not very resilient when it comes to people being angry or unkind to me without just cause and it upsets me a lot. I know that sounds pathetic and some people are going to think that I am but there we are. She hasn't apologised since then and I admit I have avoided her because I don't know how to handle it. I will usually go out of my way to put things right but at the moment I just don't have the emotional wherewithal to do that, as I'm going through a period of high anxiety related to difficult family circumstances.

So who was being unreasonable? And what do I do now - forget about it? Try to talk to her about it? Send her an email/letter (because the idea of talking to her face-to-face about it gives me the fear...)? I'm really unsure about posting this because I know some people will think I'm being utterly pathetic and will happily tell me so but hey, we're all different and we have to work with what we've got. So here goes...

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 16/09/2017 04:37

It looks as though she was responding to an unexpected need to change the arrangements. In that setting you need to be flexible I'm afraid.

kuniloofdooksa · 16/09/2017 04:51

Sorry I think yabu. I get that you were hoping to get some specific experience from the event. However, when you volunteer you are making a gift of your time and you need to do this with good will or not do it. It's difficult enough to arrange a school trip accommodating the needs of all the kids without having to think about how to structure things so that it's also a learning opportunity for an adult whose training isn't even the school's responsibility.

Other opportunities will come.

Rhubarbz · 16/09/2017 05:04

I'd let it go but use it as a learning experience. So next time email the head requesting to go with SEN child and explain why. Then the day before the trip remind the head via email that you need to be with x child for part of your course.

If she/he starts playing silly buggers look to train elsewhere

Rhubarbz · 16/09/2017 05:06

I think they do need to consider your training as it is in effect the reason they have an extra FREE TA!

MidniteScribbler · 16/09/2017 05:08

So next time email the head requesting to go with SEN child and explain why.

I think the chances of the OP being allowed to go again are pretty slim.

Rhubarbz · 16/09/2017 05:31

Why?

Italiangreyhound · 16/09/2017 05:34

MidniteScribbler "I think the chances of the OP being allowed to go again are pretty slim."

I really hope you are wrong.

The idea a head can go back on their word and then penalize the volunteer is not very nice.

I also wonder if schools realize how much free help they get from parents in so many capacities.

The attitude expressed by the head doesn't seem to recognize this help. The OP has made it clear she has been active in the school in three capacities: a paid job (earning a tiny amount of money), a voluntary role one morning a week in the past, and a whole day as a volunteer, which is dependent on experience the OP is getting.

It sounds to me like the OP is doing a lot, I hope the head won't stop this benefit to the teachers and pupils because of some perceived slight!

Italiangreyhound · 16/09/2017 05:35

(OP sorry I assumed you were a she there!)

LindyHemming · 16/09/2017 05:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Italiangreyhound · 16/09/2017 05:54

Euphemia a free pair of hands for a whole day, and you think the OP is expecting a lot? If so, why did the school agree to it? The school have taken the OP on as a volunteer in that capacity.

You can't take someone on a set capacity which includes paperwork and then feel it is too much to do it!

"You wanted to go on a school trip on your terms. As a teacher we don't get to do that!" No, because it is a job and you get paid for it.

But I do agree with you the OP does need to build their resilience..

MidniteScribbler · 16/09/2017 06:02

The idea a head can go back on their word and then penalize the volunteer is not very nice.

A volunteer with very stringent conditions is not really a volunteer. OP was there for her own benefit, not for the school. If she were not studying, she would not be there at all.

a free pair of hands for a whole day

Many (parent) volunteers are a lot more trouble than they are worth. We had one the other week that got upset because she came in for class reading, refused to work with anyone other than her own child, then got told her not to peel her 8yos banana, and she refused to leave and followed him around the playground, even coming back and banging on the teacher's office so she could get his jumper in case he was cold. She then refused to leave during our next session, and sat next to him on the floor and when the teacher asked a question, would actually shove his hand in the air and if the teacher didn't call on him, she got upset and yelled out that he had the answer.

newdaylight · 16/09/2017 06:13

So next time email the head requesting to go with SEN child and explain why. Then the day before the trip remind the head via email that you need to be with x child for part of your course.
If I was the Head in that situation if just tell them not to come. There's enough demanding children on the trip already without a volunteer trying to boss me about. I will help the volunteer if I can but they will never be prioritised because the school's not there for them.

OP - you mentioned looking forward to the situation being resolved. I'm afraid it already is. The situation arose when you argued with the Head in front of staff about where you were going to be that day and was resolved when you went to where she asked you to be.

If you make an issue out of this it will probably become apparent to the school that they should stop helping you out as they have been. You need to develop your thick skin and move on. There'll be another opportunity.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 16/09/2017 06:26

So next time email the head requesting to go with SEN child and explain why. Then the day before the trip remind the head via email that you need to be with x child for part of your course.

Tbh in these circumstances I would decline your offer to volunteer.

You need to be flexible in these type of things. If you can't be then unfortunately this isn't the thing for you to do.

Circumstances change. Anything can happen. If you are goingbti stamp your feet and put strict conditions on helping then tbh its more hassle than its help.

I agree with others also that you need to build your resilience.

opheliacat · 16/09/2017 06:36

I dkn't think the Head should have spoken to you angrily in front of others but parent volunteers can be a pain for a myriad of reasons.

awifeyforlifey · 16/09/2017 06:41

Windytwigs, my understanding of the OP is that she wasn't trying to refuse, but simply ask a question about a last minute change in case the head had forgotten/wasn't thinking/etc. She wasn't being unreasonable.

NoSquirrels, without outing myself, yes. Wink I've personally found that many teachers/heads are used to dealing with students and tend to treat parents and volunteers the same way, unintentionally.

BoomBoomsCousin · 16/09/2017 06:52

I think there are several aspects to this. Firstly, the HT did not speak to you appropriately. She shouldn't really talk to you like even if you're staff, when you're volunteering it's even worse. But none of us are perfect. It was probably a stressful situation and she was't at her best during it. As a volunteer you could have decided not to go or (and this would be more reasonable) not to volunteer with them again. Volunteering doesn't have to be a miserable chore and [people who successfully run big volunteering groups try to make it pleasent for everyone even when things don't go quite to plan.

But, as others have mentioned, as someone who wants to work in a school in a position that will require flexibility, adjusting to constant change and a variety of people not always well trained in good people management, you need to be more robust and prepared to sieze opportunity. Experience with SEN children is important, but so is experience of how schools work in the day-to-day. You had an opportunity to prove your value to the HT, but you missed it. In a work situation, that could cost you.

If the HT was like this all the time, you would have cause to lack respect for her, though if you need the experience, sucking that up and smiling anyway is (again!) good experience of what is sometimes needed in a work situation, But you say you had respected her based on her previous interactions, so it seems very intolerant to let one testy interaction colour that judgement so much.

If you want to work in a school as a TA I would thing you really need to be able to take the rude and thoughtless comments on the chin. You shouldn't stay in an environment where that's the norm. But a one off shouldn't override a history of good.

Ideally, when we talk to others we should try to avoid being short with them and testy even when we are stressed, and when we listen to others we should be tolerant of the less than perfect. This way we can achieve a balance that we can all live with where we do our best but mistakes are tolerated.

RainbowPastel · 16/09/2017 08:29

You can't volunteer and put demands on who you go with. It's up to the Head or teacher in charge. They are doing you a huge favour by letting you down your course there not you doing them a favour. You need to toughen up.

MiddleClassProblem · 16/09/2017 08:40

Just wanted to say that your over analysing is normal for someone with anxiety but it's not useful behaviour as basically you end up feeling like crap for longer. I think it's worth you looking up some cbt exercises that are anxiety related Flowers

HSMMaCM · 16/09/2017 09:19

As others have said, she was stressed getting the groups out, she knows you're reliable and asked for your help. She was a bit grumpy when you questioned her, but probably hasn't given it a second thought.

I'm sure it was nothing personal at all.

thatdearoctopus · 16/09/2017 09:57

I'm staggered that you queried her request to move elsewhere, frankly.

A trip leader in such a scenario has a zillion things on their mind, just as an army commander would have in battle. Troops on the ground aren't expected to voice their opinions but to get in with it, as it is accepted that they don't have the full picture of events.

If you're going to put provisos on your willingness to help out another time, in the way wifey suggested, for example, you'll be lucky if you ever see the inside of that school again.

BabsGanoush · 16/09/2017 10:03

If the child already had it's SEN TA with him/her, I'm not sure what experience you were going to gain.

existentialmoment · 16/09/2017 10:07

Are you the woman who was crying about pens last week?

I can't see anything that you have to be upset about. Nobody was unreasonable to you, and sending a letter about it will most likely get you removed as a volunteer as well as put any job you have there in a different light.

laurzj82 · 16/09/2017 10:13

I think you are over analysing too. I am exactly the same though. Flowers

Allthebestnamesareused · 16/09/2017 10:22

Actually I think in the circumstances OP can volunteer with demands! She was volunteering on the basis that she would gain SEN experience. This was approved.

At the last minute they asked her to do something different when it was too late to decline because the OP is a nice person and wasn't going to leave them in the lurch ratio wise.

I think if a similar situation comes up again address it then. I can give my time if x happens. I can't if it is going to be y. Last time I was assured I'd be doing x and it was changed last minute to y.

MidniteScribbler · 16/09/2017 10:38

Actually I think in the circumstances OP can volunteer with demands!

No, she cannot. Someone who is coming along to build up their placement days does not get to demand what they want to do. And no good TA would ever come along and demand where they are going to work. Someone offering their time will get welcomed, but they would be expected to act as any other volunteer on the day and work where they are assigned, not stand in the middle of a coach and argue with the head teacher.

At the last minute they asked her to do something different

Welcome to the realities of teaching.

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