AIBU to be fuming that DS has been sent home because of his hair???

[brodyblake]

DS had his haircut just before he started secondary school. In the uniform rules, it just saying no "extreme hairstyles" does not give any kind of description as to what those may be. Bugger me, he goes in with a perfect uniform, a nice smart haircut and is told it's a no!!! They have said that he is to be in isolation until it grows to an acceptable length they didn't say what would be classed as extreme!!!!!!!!

The parent didn't allow a banned haircut nor did they fail to support the school in its uniform policy.

The school stated no 'extreme' haircuts. The OPs ds has had short back and sides which in some areas of society and some cultures is considered the neat and tidy haircut the school desire.

There was no explanation of extreme - yet there was punishment for not knowing what it meant.

Extreme imo is long neon pink hair or skin head or shaved logos into hair (especially offensive ones)

Flowers I admire you returning as a seemingly lone voice ATM to continue fighting for the schools side. But it appears to me that your fight is that you translate it as extreme hairstyle. I cannot find where you've explained the detriment to the pupil or his peers of his haircut or how they have broken school rules. You just repeatedly state follow the rules or deal with the consequences. Do you think it's never appropriate to question authority or question decisions?

Seriously flowers your idea that parents just chose to live where they do and have this complete free range choice of location, property and school is worryingly scary.
You either have more money BH far than the average person and a wealth of land all over the country which you can build on or your using the wording of choice (which we know exists theoretically) whilst ignoring the reality for most.

flower

You are deliberately ignoring the fact that the school did not specify what an 'extreme haircut' was.

OP has stated that the pictures on here are not the same as her sons cut.
But let's not let a few facts get in the way of parent bashing and supporting a school which is clearly unable to write a specific description in its hairstyle code. Makes me wonder what else they manipulate when it suits them.

youarenotkiddingme

The parent didn't allow a banned haircut nor did they fail to support the school in its uniform policy.

So you are saying the parent allowed a permitted haircut and sent their child to school abiding to the school's uniform policies. And therefore, for some reason, the school decided to unfathomably make up a uniform violation and send the OP's child home, but allow hundreds of other children to remain in school.

youarenotkiddingme Why would the school do this? Should this have been the case, the OP should come on here and tell us how the school has justified the singular vendetta against the OP's son, given he has not gone to school with a banned haircut. Has the OP notified the press? Have they contacted their educational authority? Has the OP called for a Governor's meeting and called for the HT's sacking, given the absolute persecution of the OP's son for no reason whatsoever?

No? Why is that youarenotkiddingme?

The school stated no 'extreme' haircuts. The OPs ds has had short back and sides which in some areas of society and some cultures is considered the neat and tidy haircut the school desire.

Ah, so the school made a rule. The OP's child violated that rule. In some areas of society it might be considered neat and tidy. In some areas of society which I have written about before several times, it is not considered neat and tidy. This school is one such area. This school is where the child was going to attend and the institution's standards that this child should have respected. He and the OP didn't.

There was no explanation of extreme - yet there was punishment for not knowing what it meant. confused

As a matter of record, the OP should post the full wording. As a matter of record, none of us know for a fact if the OP "didn't know" or did know and tried to get away with it. We do not know. If you are now claiming the OP did not know what it meant, and did not know that a highly contrasting nearing-Skin-Fade cut was extreme, when it would seem hundreds of boys' parents did understand exactly what it meant, it is generally not seen in the workplace as it's so inappropriate etc etc, then as all the uniform policies I have ever seen invite, she should have checked with the school first. She chose not to.

Given that hundreds of boys' parents understood, the school really cannot cater for the tiny minority of parents who claim they did not know.

Extreme imo is long neon pink hair or skin head or shaved logos into hair (especially offensive ones)

In your opinion. That's very interesting. However your opinion does not set out the standards and policies of the school in this case.

Flowers I admire you returning as a seemingly lone voice ATM to continue fighting for the schools side.

Thank you. I disengage from anyone who keeps asking me to repeat myself or who keeps posting weird motivations which they desperately wish to be true that must lurk behind my thinking or personal insults. Largely, this debate has been conducted with manners and civilly, and I respect that. In this particular case, I agree with the school. I also like the pride, togetherness, equality and fairness for poorer children that a uniform provides.

But it appears to me that your fight is that you translate it as extreme hairstyle.

I don't "translate it". I agree with the school that it's an extreme haircut.

I cannot find where you've explained the detriment to the pupil or his peers of his haircut or how they have broken school rules.

I can't keep repeating this and I can't do all the searching.

You just repeatedly state follow the rules or deal with the consequences.

No, I repeatedly only state that in answer to specific posts that say it's all the school's fault and that the school should roll over.

Do you think it's never appropriate to question authority or question decisions?

Good grief, yes. Question the school's rules - debate this haircut if you all wish, OP should challenge it, raise it, complain about it if she wants. But right now, today, the dress code stands. Right now, today, her son is in isolation because she and he violated the rules. Right now, today, she has her child's education to think of and understand her actions have caused all this. If she didn't agree with the policies, she should have set the wheels in motion to challenge them beforehand, or sent her child to another school. Right now, today, the school needs to get on upholding their standards and teaching children.

I also like the pride, togetherness, equality and fairness for poorer children that a uniform provides.

Sadly a uniform will not provide these, if it is not communicated clearly or if there is any type of barrier, for particular sectors of the school community, to achieving this uniform standard. If standards are vague, as per the Op's description at her son's school, and the school's interpretation is likely to be other from the community's that it is placed amongst, the uniform standard does become a barrier to learning. Which unfairly discriminates against those of a different culture from the staff at the school. This is why schools with strict, expensive and harshly, inflexibly, implemented uniform sanctions are routinely reported in the papers. Hundreds, of new Year 7s, have been turned away from the school gate and this has been reported.

Flowers you are deliberately missing the long and posting long worded posts that avoid the actual issue. --Thinks your a politician or the HT of shithole academy that ds ended up leaving.

The OP son DID NOT break a rule. There was NO RULE against short back and sides. The rule was no 'extreme' haircuts which is totally open to interpretation.

My ds has a short back and sides cut but his doesn't look like the skin fade pictured above because he has thick auburn hair. I'm assuming it's the same cut but tbh I just let the Barber cut it every 6 weeks!
It's the only cut he can have due to his head shape, hair thickness and oddly placed crown!

If the school policy specifically stated "no skin fade style haircuts and no hair shorter than a grade 3" we'd be having a different discussion. I'm sure there would still be many including me who don't agree with such strict rules around haircuts but your argument that the parent allowed a child to have a banned haircut would cut some mustard.

Personally I think it's fantastic that members of society will debate these issues and some will stand up and fight. If they didn't some vulnerable groups - such as the disabled - would be becoming far more disadvantaged than they currently are under the new government.

I think some people are going to have to agree to disagree but let's remember the OP's position here.

OP - you and your son have been treated badly by the school. The school has not issued clear guidelines on what constitutes an "extreme hairstyle". You have allowed your son to have a short, neat haircut with no dark connotations, and that does belong to any subculture. You have done nothing wrong. Neither you nor your son has been provocative with this choice of hairstyle.

The school response has fallen below what is expected of them. We can only go by what has been written in the OP however it doesn't seem that an explanation has been given as to why his hair cut is classed as "extreme". A full, written explanation is the least you deserve. (They should also be apologising for not being more clear about it in the first place.) They also need to commit to updating the school website and handbook to include a clear definition.

It is very important that they explain precisely what constitutes an extreme hairstyle or else you have no way of knowing when his punishment will be complete. How much does his hair have to grow before it is deemed acceptable? Who decides what is acceptable? How will it be measured, will the HT whip out his ruler each morning? Is your son to be cut off in every class until this happens? What if takes a fortnight, will he spend his first two weeks of high school in isolation? Is this considered an acceptable and proportionate punishment by the school, board of governors, academy group (if appropriate), the department of education? What about your son's emotional wellbeing during this period? There are potentially safeguarding issues here (which is a word I would start using a lot if I were you).

The school's response is ludicrous. And how unfortunate that your son's first experience of high school - already an anxious time - has been so negative for no fault of his own.

The fact that some PP find it 'obviously' an extreme hair cut speaks more to the class system and snobbery in this country than it does to the clarity or value of the school rules.

The fact that some PP find it 'obviously' an extreme hair cut speaks more to the class system and snobbery in this country than it does to the clarity or value of the school rules.

This sums it up very nicely.

no extreme hairstyles, does not give any kind of description as to what those may be

Flowers
For the millionth time people are referring you to what op has said is in the school handbook.

There is NO clarification on what 'extreme means' so how the freak are you so vehemently arguing her sons neat short hairstyle breaks this non existent rule?

You can't just decide for yourself that your idea of the perfect haircut is the one the school meant.

Ffs she didnt disagree with any policies are you making this up as you go along?

THERE WAS NO CLEAR POLICY TO DISAGREE WITH

Her son has full uniform and short hair. Any other school would be fine with that. He isnt sporting a red white and blue flag on a grade 2, he isn't wearing trainers and jeans, he isn't covered in tatoos. It's a neat haircut. If that's all the school have to complain about then they are bloody lucky.

Willow2017

flower
You are deliberately ignoring the fact that the school did not specify what an 'extreme haircut' was.

Kindly stop imposing motivations made up in your head on me. That another person doesn't do something you demand does not automatically mean they are "deliberately ignoring" anything.

You are failing to read what I posted earlier. I suggest you do.
You are failing to understand that, in my opinion, and perhaps the school if there is proof they did not provide any more detail at all in their wording, this haircut is "extreme". I am agreeing with that description. What part of this are you having such difficulty understanding?

OP has stated that the pictures on here are not the same as her sons cut.

OP has stated that the pictures on here are not the same, are shorter but similar as her son's cut. Hence my use of almost-Skin Fade type descriptions throughout.

But let's not let a few facts get in the way..

Obviously...

"of parent bashing and supporting a school which is clearly unable to write a specific description in its hairstyle code."

There you go again. Fake narratives and motivations all made up in your head. An OP comes on here and asks if they are BU. Several posters say yes, she is. Saying parents should adhere to school uniform rules is parent bashing is it. Gosh. I repeat, for the umpteenth time, you believe the school was "clearly unable to write a specific description". Hundreds of other parents perfectly understood it. I understand it. Other posters understand it. Entire communities understand it. That you and the OP don't doesn't mean the school is wrong.

Makes me wonder what else they manipulate when it suits them.

Makes me wonder what else parents and posters like you pretend you didn't understand to manipulate when it suits them.

youarenotkiddingme

The OP son DID NOT break a rule. There was NO RULE against short back and sides

I repeat, if OP's son did not break the rule about extreme hair cuts, which are not the same as short back and sides, why was their son placed in isolation exactly?

I think these cuts are extreme nowadays and certainly not suitable for school.
If the school say no extreme cuts this is there way of upholding their rule, whether you, I or half of Mnet agree or disagree.

yesiamgoingtoeatthat

The fact that some PP find it 'obviously' an extreme hair cut speaks more to the class system and snobbery in this country than it does to the clarity or value of the school rules.

Child violates school dress code and it's a class and snobbery issue?

Thanks, that really, really gave me such a laugh this afternoon.

I dont know how i would be supposed to know that a short back and sides is an extreme haircut ...unless the school tells me

So as a woman of 48 extreme to me would be mohawk, dyed, skinhead or symbols cut into the hair

I think a man bun is quite extreme (i know its probably not)

But short back and sides is what virtually every lad at school had back in the old days...plus we live in a navy village, they virtually all have short back and sides...or short

'Extreme'
Radical, extraordinary, exceptional, fantastical.

All words used in the Oxford dictionary to define 'extreme' . I fail to see how they refer to a short back and sides.

I repeat if the school definition of 'extreme' is a secret until they decide to isolate a child then how are parents to know?

Actually she didn't violate any dress code.
Her son has school uniform on and short haircut.
How can you violate something that you are not specifically told about before school starts?

Child violates school dress code and it's a class and snobbery issue?

Child does not violate school dress code because 'extreme' is not defined in the dress code and pronouncements that an (unseen) haircut is 'extreme' seem to be based on class-centred norms rather than an empirical standard or evidence.

I repeat, if OP's son did not break the rule about extreme hair cuts, which are not the same as short back and sides, why was their son placed in isolation exactly?

Because the school has decided that it is reasonable to enforce the rule based on a definition of 'extreme' they have not seen fit to share with parents.

Just because a school did it doesn't make it right or reasonable. Schools are fallible.

Willow2017

'Extreme'
Radical, extraordinary, exceptional, fantastical.

All words used in the Oxford dictionary to define 'extreme' . I fail to see how they refer to a short back and sides.

At last. Yes, you are failing. You are failing because a short back and sides is NOT an extreme haircut.

For goodness sake, google "extreme haircuts". They are NOT short back and sides. They are EXTREME haircuts. The web is full of articles on it. There are extreme haircut appreciation sites. There are numerous stories of children being sent home from school because of "extreme haircuts". An extreme haircut is not merely using an adjective that is open to wide subjective interpretation - in the same way "short" could be, how short is short precisely? - it is EXTREME.

Actually she didn't violate any dress code.
Her son has school uniform on and short haircut.

I ask you again Willow2017, if the child did not violate the dress code which included a ban on "extreme haircuts", why were they put in isolation? You have failed to answer this.

'Extreme' implies that it is not mainstream. If a certain haircut is popular and mainstream within a community, it is not reasonable to expect that community t consider that haircut 'extreme'.

And it is not reasonable for a school to expect that all parents and students from across communities and demographics will interpret 'extreme' in the same way as the school leadership does.

JassyRadlett

the school has decided that it is reasonable to enforce the rule based on a definition of 'extreme' they have not seen fit to share with parents.

A definition which is widely understood, understood culturally, understood at a society level, understood across the school by all the other parents, understood by me, understood by others, understood in the media, understood across YouTube, understood among teenagers, understood in blogs. "Extreme haircuts" is a thing.

If the OP wasn't aware of countless articles about similar cuts being in violation of no-extreme haircut policies, of the whole "thing" about extreme haircuts, and if her son never uttered a single word about the fashion trend which peculiarly enough he was wanting to join, then she should have asked for clarification. If she was aware, she shouldn't have done it.

Meh, it's still a Chavvy haircut that ends up on the front page of DM online.

Hundreds of thousands (ok, maybe just thousands)...of teenage boys went to School last week/the week before. But yet, as always there are the 'upset parents', and 'wronged kids', who for some reason just don't get it. Funny how the other boys/his peers (oh and his/their parents), managed to cope.

Maddie, Meh, it's still a Chavvy haircut that ends up on the front page of DM online.

I find the term 'Chavvy', quite offensively divisive actually. Shouldn't children from every sector of society be deserving of an education which seeks to tackle barriers their background might subject them to? This is why we get marked attainment gaps between different sectors of society.

And yes, The Daily Mail, does frequently report on these type of issues and often the schools seem increasingly harsh. This type of story is implicitly sensational for a reason. If schools acted more sensitivity and sensibly, there would be not nearly as much fodder for these type of articles. Here is an example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3273855/Schoolboy-BANNED-classroom-extreme-haircut-10-year-old-told-shave-short-sides-skinhead-return.html

And the solution, in this case, seems equally nonsensical.

The first case, in the article, is the one I refer to. The next cases I think do illustrate extreme haircuts. However some of their punishments seem lesser than the one OP's son was subjected to.