To think this holiday allowance is unfair?

[QueenOfThorns]

Sorry, I know this should probably be in the Work section, but I needed somewhere with more traffic so I can make a decision quickly.

I have recently accepted an offer of employment from a company who I really like the look of - many former colleagues work there and seem to like it. They have also been really flexible and agreed to let me work part time hours, but spread over 5 days, so 6 hours per day.

Today I received the usual paperwork to sign, including my contract of employment. It all seems as expected, except that it specifies that my holiday entitlement is 25 days (including public holidays), on a pro rata basis, with a full-time employee getting 33 days. This doesn't seem fair to me, after all, it would take me exactly the same number of holiday days to take a week off as a full-time employee, so why should I get fewer? (I had previously negotiated a similar working pattern with my current employer, changing from 4 full days to 5 shorter ones, and they were going to increase my holiday allowance to that of a full-time employee, which suggests that I'm not being totally unreasonable to think this would be fair!)

Does anyone have a working pattern like this and can you tell me whether you get the full holiday entitlement? Or is there anyone out there who works in HR who knows what would be standard practice?

I'm hoping that they just haven't thought this through, otherwise it feels a bit like they're trying to take the piss. And I'm not sure that I want to work for them if they are! Either way, I think it's a deal breaker for me unless they change this - I'd be sad to walk away, but I'm prepared to do it!

What do you think?

I work very similar hours to you OP (5 days 09:30 - 14:30 daily) and have always had a full holiday allocation.

It would be unfair to work out your working time in hours, but your holidays in days. It should either be both in hours or both in days.

Either way you should be able to take the full 33 days.

They've made a mistake - you definitely get the same entitlement as a full time worker if you work five days a week. I do six hours a day over five days and get the same allowance as full timers.

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

Do you think their system only lets I be expressed in days though?

33x 6hrs is 198 hrs
25 x 8hrs is 200hrs

Just ask them how many hours it equates to

Rainbow thanks for that lovely, condescending insult. Do you really have to get personal over a simple question?

Say I work 3 days a week. I get 15 days holiday- full timers get 25. I am still only paid for 3 days a week but still only get 3/5 the holiday- OP as you are suggesting should get to take the same days holiday as full timers, and yes is only paid part time, but why should that differ from part timers who don't work on certain days but only get a small proportion of holiday?
I could say I'm entitled to 25 days too, but only get paid for 15 of them.

My holidays are in hours so for example I do part time and get xxx hours (28 days) and the full time get xxx hours (28 days) they just get more hours as it uses more hours for them to take the day off

Scattymere this is simple maths which you still have not understood. The OP works 5 days a week not 3. She works the same number of days as a full-timer. Therefore to take the same holiday days she is entitled to the same number of days just for less pay.

HerRoyall friom what I gather the full time workers in OP's company work 7.5 hours per day not 8.

OP you just need to ask them how you are expected to book holiday, and then if they say in hours or days you can follow up with either; "can you tell me what the 25 days equates to in hours" and then "why is this not 198 hours (33x6)" OR if they say days then you say, I am working a 5 day week and so although my pay is pro-rata'd I am entitled to 33 days off in line with the FT staff"

Just as an aside I believe that the 28 days statutory holiday entitlement includes Bank holidays though. So actually the legal entitlement is only 20 days leave plus bank hols. Not 28 plus bank hols. Just as a watch out because you don't want to go in saying I am legall;y required to X and then be wrong :)

You work pt. I work ft. We both work Mon-Fri.
I take Monday off, that's 1 day's holiday.
You take Friday off, that 1 day's holiday.
Are your HR trying to say that when you take Friday off it equates to more than 1 day? That's bonkers.

Doing it in hours is just unnecessarily complicated
It is only complicated for the mentally challenged. Hours is the easiest and simplest way of doing it

It's actually not that hard.

Say OP works 80% (6 hours) of Full time equivalent which is 7.5 hours. so if the overall entitlement is 33 days. then that equals 247.5 hours. OPs 80% of that is 198 hours. 198 hours divided by 6 hours = 33 days. about 6 and a half weeks off.

If OP worked that 80% over 4 days of 7.5 hours then she would still get 198 hours but that only works out at 26.4 days but luckily she only needs 4 days instead of 5 for a week off so she still has over 6 and a half weeks off

But what if you don't work Mondays at all ever?
Then you add 8 days to the annual leave entitlement and pro-rata it

In our company the way it works for bank holidays is that it is pro rated separately. So if there are 8 holidays and you work 80% then you get 48 hours holiday. If you are scheduled to work on a BH then you deduct off the hours and if you aren't then the hours stay in your pot and can be used at another time. It's actually more difficult if there happens to be more BHs on your working days than you get allocated leave for.

Thanks for elucidation of BH entitlement.

God this thread is really winding me up, anyone else.

She works five short days (e.g. 9am to 3pm) and gets paid £20 per short day.

FT works five days (e.g. 9am to 5pm) and gets paid £30 per full day.

OP holiday entitlement is 33 days at £20 per day.
FT holiday entitlement is 33 days at £30 per day.

She's not getting any more pay or any more holiday than she is entitled to.

Maryof1993
It is only complicated for the mentally challenged. Hours is the easiest and simplest way of doing it

Completely unnecessary to calculate hours in the OP's situation, and a number of posters thinking in terms of hours are getting very muddled. Incredibly straightforward to calculate in days.

Ok, so I have a question.

I'm working 22.5 hours a week, split over 4 days, 3 days @ 6 hours and 1 day @4.5 hours. The 4.5 hours will be a study day when I'm enrolled at college and I won't necessarily have to go into work, but Good Friday is a BH and 4.5 hours have been deducted from my holiday (done in hours not days) when my contract states I get 65.5 hours holiday (from this week until 31st March) plus 18 hours BH, Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year. Those 3 days are not taken out of my 65.5 hours so why has Good Friday? Also given I can just stay at home to study on a Friday anyway, I'm not sure why I need to use holiday entitlement for this day? My manager originally told me I'd need to use 18 hours a week to get the full week off, not 22.5, because of the study day.

Unicorn all workers used to be entitled to bank holidays. Now companies don't have to pay their workers for bank holidays. A lot of places pro-rat'd them for part-timers. You don't work full-time so are not entitled to the full quota like someone who works every day.

OP, I work 5 short days a week and receive the same holiday entitlement as full timers because when I take a days holiday it is a short days holiday not an 7.5 hour day! Not sure why on earth anyone thinks you'd be getting full time pay for your annual leave.
When I worked 4 days per week I received 80% of the holiday allowance and BH entitlement.
And no, you don't need to calculate it in hours, that doesn't make it simpler, it just adds an extra level of calculation which is not required.

unicorn if you normally work on a Friday then you need to take it as annual leave.
When I worked 4 days/week I only had 6 BH days so had to use annual leave if they all fell on working days. Your company has made it more complicated by excluding some of the bank holidays from your holiday entitlement but not all.

6 out of 8 BH allowance I meant (sorry not clear, was typing too fast 😳)

Maryof1993
"It is only complicated for the mentally challenged. Hours is the easiest and simplest way of doing it"

Well aren't you a charmer?! I'd love to know how booking 42 hours holiday when you want to take 7 days off is "simpler" than..er...just booking 7 days off.

Most people speak and think in terms of numbers of days off when it comes to holiday. Therefore of course it's simpler, where this is possible, to enable them to book holiday in days rather than hours.

Op please update us when you hear back. I don't think YABU and don't understand why people think you are asking for the same amount of holiday? You work less per day and don't want to be paid any more per day on your A/L??

Completely unnecessary to calculate hours in the OP's situation

I realise that, but for consistency, it is better to work it out in hours, otherwise you will end up working it out differently for every part timer. One calculation that works for everyone. Keep it simple.

I'd love to know how booking 42 hours holiday when you want to take 7 days off is "simpler" than..er...just booking 7 days off.

Because for a part-timer, once their annual leave entitlement has been pro-ratad, it might not work out in whole days. They might have, for example, 15 days and three hours. Not in the case of the OP, though, as she's still working the same number of days as a full-timer.

I reckon they have just gone with the day equivalent of the number of hours.