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Original poster

To think this holiday allowance is unfair?

164 replies

QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 20:14

Sorry, I know this should probably be in the Work section, but I needed somewhere with more traffic so I can make a decision quickly.

I have recently accepted an offer of employment from a company who I really like the look of - many former colleagues work there and seem to like it. They have also been really flexible and agreed to let me work part time hours, but spread over 5 days, so 6 hours per day.

Today I received the usual paperwork to sign, including my contract of employment. It all seems as expected, except that it specifies that my holiday entitlement is 25 days (including public holidays), on a pro rata basis, with a full-time employee getting 33 days. This doesn't seem fair to me, after all, it would take me exactly the same number of holiday days to take a week off as a full-time employee, so why should I get fewer? (I had previously negotiated a similar working pattern with my current employer, changing from 4 full days to 5 shorter ones, and they were going to increase my holiday allowance to that of a full-time employee, which suggests that I'm not being totally unreasonable to think this would be fair!)

Does anyone have a working pattern like this and can you tell me whether you get the full holiday entitlement? Or is there anyone out there who works in HR who knows what would be standard practice?

I'm hoping that they just haven't thought this through, otherwise it feels a bit like they're trying to take the piss. And I'm not sure that I want to work for them if they are! Either way, I think it's a deal breaker for me unless they change this - I'd be sad to walk away, but I'm prepared to do it!

What do you think?

OP posts:
OhSoTotallyLost · 14/09/2017 20:35

When I worked pt but 5 days a week I got the same amount of days holiday as those working full time but obviously just got paid the same as normal when I was on holiday. Unless you're paid hourly then it shouldn't matter that your holiday isn't calculated in hours surely? I don't understand why they would pro rata it unless you only worked a couple of days a week. I now work 3 days a week so get 3/5 of the holiday allowance (e.g. 18 days instead of 30)

Wattonearth · 14/09/2017 20:35

You need a calculation done in hours to make it appear fair although it is you just need to understand the math and then get them to give you your allowance in hours instead of days
At my work it is done as so
30hrs per week X holiday entitlement of 33 days X standard full time day of 8hrs all divided by standard full time working week of 40 hrs
(30 x33x8)/40= 198hrs leave this is enough hours to take 33 days leave at 6hrs per day
But 198hrs for a full timer would equate to approx 25 days annual leave. (198/8=24.75)

To compare
A full time would get (40x33x8)/40= 264hrs that's enough hours to take 33 days leave

I prob have explained this poorly but I hope this helps x

cdtaylornats · 14/09/2017 20:36

Working it over 5 days doesn't matter - everyone else needs to take 8 hours leave for a day off, the OP only needs to take 6.

MummytoCSJH · 14/09/2017 20:39

I think that depends how the holiday season runs - for example, is is January to December or is it from your start date to a year from now etc. You can work out your legal entitlement on gov.uk, but I'd bet it's actually less than what you are being given, probably as holiday runs Jan-December. The legal requirement is 28 days including public holidays for a full time employee. I'm just starting a full time job and this year I'm only getting just over a week's holiday as it is pro rata, so as a part time employee I would expect you to have less! It should also as others have pointed out been calculated in hours as you don't work full days.

ElizabethG81 · 14/09/2017 20:40

Have you got 25 days pro rata because you're a new starter, and the others have increased to 33 days after so many years of service?

MudCity · 14/09/2017 20:40

Your entitlement will be pro rata. However, as others have said, ask for clarification in hours. It won't be as many hours' leave as a full time employee will get though....understandably!

MudCity · 14/09/2017 20:41

And yes, as Elizabeth has said, as a new starter you may get less holiday entitlement and have to build up your entitlement over several years.

Original poster
QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 20:44

Thanks everyone! I think most people agree with me.

To those suggesting that I'm asking for the same holiday allowance/pay as a full-time employee, that's not the case - I want 33 x 6-hour holiday days. If I was full time, I would get 33 x 7.5-hour days. My pay (and therefore holiday pay) is calculated on a pro rata basis, as is totally fair Smile

I'm a little disconcerted that it doesn't seem to be as clear cut as I thought, but all I can do is make the point and see what they say! If anyone can think of any good wording to argue my case in my email back to them, I'd be really grateful.

OP posts:
Becles · 14/09/2017 20:45

Why on earth would you get a full time annual leave allowance when working part time?

Where I work part time team members get their pro rata bank holiday and annual leave calculated in hours but then we devide by their normal hours a day and they known that they have x days off work a year. Otherwise it's a pain to calculate - so in your case we'd work out that you had 150 hours of leave and your leave card would be 150 hours (of which x is a/little and y i's bh) / by 6 hours = 25x 6 hour days.

We'd then work out which bank holidays fell on your normal working days, block out from the allowance and tell you that you have 22 or whatever days to play with as worked best for you.

Danceswithwarthogs · 14/09/2017 20:47

It couldn't be to do with the days you work and how many bank hols are likely to fall on your working days? My job share person and I would appear to have different leave allowances as she works mondays and I don't, so she gets paid not to be at work on the bh where I get to choose more holiday dates....
Or possibly they are introducing a new job with minimum holiday entitlement for you... it may be something that increases with time served? Could you negotiate?

MrsNuckyThompson · 14/09/2017 20:49

I would imagine that this is just an HR admin fvck up rather than anyone trying to screw you over. Just check in with them and ask them to correct the contract.

iamyourequal · 14/09/2017 20:51

What are you actual contracted hours you get paid for? You say you are working 6 hours per day. Do you have an unpaid break to be deducted from that. Or are you actually working 6,5 hours per day? Legally they can't let you work more than 5 hours in a shift without a break. We can calculate exactly what your annual leave should be in hours if you supply this information.

Original poster
QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 20:51

Dances, as the job is Mon-Fri, exactly the same number of bank holidays will fall on my working days as on a full-time employee's working days!

Becles, see my last post - I don't think I should.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 14/09/2017 20:52

I would email and say that you are assuming the 25 days is setting it out in hours (8x25) so that in effect your holiday is 200 hours (the 6 hour equivalent of 33 days) and that you will be allocating it out in 6 hour slots (so a week would be 30 hours)

Purdyandwheezy · 14/09/2017 20:53

Surely you either get 33 days at 6 hours per day or 25 days at the full time hours per day which wouldn't make sense as you'd be getting paid a full one day on each of your holiday days.
I agree with you, you should get 33 days because you will only be getting 6 hours pay for each of those days.
If someone worked 3 full days it would be pro rated so that they got fewer days but it resulted in the same amount of weeks being taken.

Original poster
QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 20:54

Iam, the contract is for 9.00 - 3.30, Mon -Fri, with 30 min unpaid lunch break.

OP posts:
SweetIcedTea · 14/09/2017 20:55

I work part time over 5 days and get exactly the same number of days annual leave as I would if I was full time, but I get paid on my part time hours. Where I work only part time staff who work less than 5 days have their annual leave calculated in hours.

To have a week off work I need to book 5 days annual leave, same as someone who works full time over 5 days, so why would I get less days? I just get paid for less hours, just like I do every other week when I'm working.

If it was calculated in hours it would still add up to the same number of days as a full time employee, based on my daily hours.

Maryof1993 · 14/09/2017 20:57

Sounds like someone in HR has assumed your 30 hours are over 4 days rather than 5, in which case 25 days would be correct. Your contract just needs correcting

BestIsWest · 14/09/2017 20:58

It's 6 hours without a break, not 5.

CoffeeCupCake · 14/09/2017 20:58

How many hours are there in a full-time day at your company?

SusieOwl4 · 14/09/2017 20:58

Had a similar case recently and it is complicated but if you work 5 days per week with the same hours every day your holiday days should be the same as everyone else . If you are salaried your holiday pay is automatically pro rata as you are getting reduced pay in proportion by default. If you work irregular hours over those 5 days then the employer is entitled to calculate hourly . So don't confuse holiday pay with holiday entitlement.

Newtssuitcase · 14/09/2017 20:59

OP see my previous post. It is completely clear cut. You work five days a week and so you are legally entitled to 33 days if that is the entitlement others working 5 days are given. On those days you don't go to work but you get normal pay (i.e pay for 6 hours only).

That is the correct position, your contract is wrong and everyone on here saying otherwise is also wrong Smile.

Merida83 · 14/09/2017 21:02

My employer calculates holidays in hours. So your 5 days is 30 hours where as ft equivalent is 5 days 37.5 hrs.

As long as that's how they doing it it works out equal. But definitely check before signing

BestIsWest · 14/09/2017 21:03

Yes, I agree, if you are working 5 days you get the same leave allowance as full time staff, i.e. 33 days.

You get paid for 6 hours for those days.

alltouchedout · 14/09/2017 21:07

It may be something to do with the bank holidays as my leave allowance is always expressed as "33 days (25 days plus 8 bank holidays)".

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