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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this holiday allowance is unfair?

164 replies

QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 20:14

Sorry, I know this should probably be in the Work section, but I needed somewhere with more traffic so I can make a decision quickly.

I have recently accepted an offer of employment from a company who I really like the look of - many former colleagues work there and seem to like it. They have also been really flexible and agreed to let me work part time hours, but spread over 5 days, so 6 hours per day.

Today I received the usual paperwork to sign, including my contract of employment. It all seems as expected, except that it specifies that my holiday entitlement is 25 days (including public holidays), on a pro rata basis, with a full-time employee getting 33 days. This doesn't seem fair to me, after all, it would take me exactly the same number of holiday days to take a week off as a full-time employee, so why should I get fewer? (I had previously negotiated a similar working pattern with my current employer, changing from 4 full days to 5 shorter ones, and they were going to increase my holiday allowance to that of a full-time employee, which suggests that I'm not being totally unreasonable to think this would be fair!)

Does anyone have a working pattern like this and can you tell me whether you get the full holiday entitlement? Or is there anyone out there who works in HR who knows what would be standard practice?

I'm hoping that they just haven't thought this through, otherwise it feels a bit like they're trying to take the piss. And I'm not sure that I want to work for them if they are! Either way, I think it's a deal breaker for me unless they change this - I'd be sad to walk away, but I'm prepared to do it!

What do you think?

OP posts:
Original poster
QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 22:24

According to the government website, I need 28 days' holiday to get 5.6 weeks off, so they are definitely wrong!

OP posts:
catkind · 14/09/2017 22:28

Check with them how the calculation works. Where I work my holiday allowance is allocated in terms of the number of full time days. So I get 15 days holiday allowance, but it only takes 3 days holiday allowance for me to take a week off even though I'm in the office every day. In effect the holiday is calculated in hours and I actually have 15 days x 7 hours allowance.

healthyheart · 14/09/2017 22:29

Good luck and hope you get it sorted. Another one here who thinks 33 days @ 6 hours per day.

scottishdiem · 14/09/2017 22:33

Walk away. You will find that this company has different HR approaches than your current one and since you think they are taking the piss now you will just get more annoyed.

The government website states that "You should be treated no less favourably if you are a part-time worker than an equivalent full-timer. This means that if your employer gives extra days off to full-timers they may have to give extra time off to part-time workers as well."

Extra time. Not extra days. Its all pro-rata. You are part-time. You get part time holidays based on the pro-rata ratio of your hours compared to normal full time hours at your employer.

reup · 14/09/2017 22:37

I work part time not every day and my leave is in hours. But I also only get the same proportion of bank holidays too. As I work Mondays I get a disproportionate amount of bank holidays. It's. Bit annoying but I can sort of see it's fair.

SnowiestMountain · 14/09/2017 22:42

I work some long days, finish at 5 and some shorter days, finish at 2:30. I get the same number of holiday days as the full timers as I work 5 days, even though some are short. I have to take holidays like the full timers too though, for example on a short day if I wanted an afternoon off, I'd have to take a half day holiday even though it's only half an afternoon, hopefully that makes sense!

Original poster
QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 22:47

scottishdiem, yes and if you do the maths, that means I should get 33 x 6 hour days. If you don't want to do the maths, iam has already done them Smile

OP posts:
DobbyLovesSocks · 14/09/2017 22:52

I work for NHS and all our leave is calculated in hours to avoid this. I work full time (37.5) and my colleagues works P/t (30/33). If I want to book a day off I book 7.5 hours, she books 6.5 (8 on a Monday as she works a longer day). If I want a week I book 37.5 she books 30. She gets less hours leave than me in total but she needs to book less hours to get a day or a week off. Totally fair as far as I can see. Plus as have been there 10 years I get full compliment of leave eq. 33 days (28 when you first start)

mellicauli · 14/09/2017 22:54

They have been a bit mean because even pro rataed it should have been 25.5 days! Send it back and say to be fair your holiday should be expressed in working hours rather than days (i.e. 152).

Ask them about the scenario when you wanted to take half a day's holiday. Should you take 3 hours off as that's half your day or half a standard day off seeing as their proposal is looking at full working days.

I had this kind of issue when I was part time. it was just because the people I was talking to weren't that bright?

BeepBeepMOVE · 14/09/2017 23:00

Are you sure they don't mean 25 days of 7.5 hours?

Most places I have worked would do it by hours for part timers but count the days in full time hours.

So if you took a day off you would use 6hours holiday not a full day.

BestZebbie · 14/09/2017 23:00

"This doesn't seem fair to me, after all, it would take me exactly the same number of holiday days to take a week off as a full-time employee, so why should I get fewer?"

Because it doesn't take you the same amount of holiday days to take a week off - if you only work two days a week, you need two days of holiday to have a week away from work, not five days.

Original poster
QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 23:04

Best, as I said in my OP, I'll be working 5 days!

OP posts:
mishfish · 14/09/2017 23:04

OP my last job was exactly the same (30 hours over 5 days) and I was also offered 25 days holiday.

I went on an online holiday entitlement calculator and it said my minimum statutory holiday was 28 days annual leave per year.

You still need to take 5 working days off to have a week off work, therefore you are entitled to full time holiday entitlement. If you worked 30 hours over 4 days then you would be entitled to 4/5 of that. If you worked 30 hours over 3 days, you would be entitled to 3/5 of that. If you worked 1 hour per day, 5 days a week then you would be entitled to the same as other full time employees

JillTheReckless · 14/09/2017 23:13

I agree with you OP

The people who are querying why on earth you should get the same paid leave as full time employees are missing the point. On a day's holiday you will still only be getting paid for your reduced hours day - i.e. 6 hours - not a full day's pay. That's where the distinction between you and a full time employee should lie, not in terms of the number of days you should have. It's different in my case - I work 3 full days a week so get 3/5 of the full time holiday allowance

Jux · 14/09/2017 23:40

You should get 33 days of 6 hours each. It's very simple.

valeinoyikbuno · 15/09/2017 06:01

5.6 weeks off is the legal minimum but also they must not treat you less favourably than a ft employee. They give their ft employees 6.6 weeks off so they must give you 6.6 weeks off.

StealthPolarBear · 15/09/2017 06:12

I suspect their holiday allowance is an equivalence of ft days and then behind the scenes gets converted to hours for part timers. Definitely worth checking though.

flowery · 15/09/2017 06:20

The trouble with asking for employment law advice in AIBU for "traffic" rather than Employment is that you get reams of "traffic" from people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about.

Luckily a couple of knowledgeable people happen to have seen it as well. If your employer is going to express holiday in days, it needs to be 33 like anyone else who works 5 days a week. I wouldn't bother with calculating it in hours- if you work the same hours each day that just makes it unnecessarily complicated.

Babbit · 15/09/2017 06:39

I had this exact thing several years ago - moved from 3 full days to 5 days of 6 hours and had to challenge my holiday entitlement. You are right, of course, you should receive 33 days holiday.

BarbaraofSevillle · 15/09/2017 06:47

The trouble with asking for employment law advice in AIBU for "traffic" rather than Employment is that you get reams of "traffic" from people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about

^^ This. You see it for all sorts of different topics. Few sensible posters giving sensible advice get swamped by ten times as many people talking bollocks.

I suspect their holiday allowance is an equivalence of ft days and then behind the scenes gets converted to hours for part timers. Definitely worth checking though

I'm hoping that this will be the case, but just to add to those saying that you need the same prorata holiday allowance as everyone else, but for part timers at least, it is often easiest to work in annualised hours. It then accounts for different people working different patterns - 5 days of 6 hours vs 4 days of 7.5 hours for example. You should both get the same number of weeks off work, and the same as FT employees, hence annualised hours.

Our work gives everyone hours, so if a full timer gets 300 hours of leave a year (made up numbers - CBA to work it out) and your standard hours are 40 pw. You are 0.75 Full Time Equivalent, so should get 225 hours per year. If you want one day off, it costs you 6 hours, but 8 hours for a full timer.

This is also important if you are salaried and work flexi time - to take a day off you get 6 hours credit on your flexi tracker. A full timer would get 8 hours.

RainbowPastel · 15/09/2017 06:50

If you are doing the same hours every day then 33 days should be your entitlement. The only time it needs to be done in hours if you are working different hours on different days.

My husband works 4 long days and one half day. If he wants to take a holiday he has to take a holiday on the half day he has to use a full day. Doesn't seem right to me but was agreed by the union.

Brittbugs80 · 15/09/2017 07:01

I work part-time. I do 3 days per week and get 12 days leave. Full-timers get 20 days. I feel this is perfectly fair. If I want to take a week off, I only need to use 3 days leave. The full-timers have to take 5 days

Have you checked that? I worked three days a week and was advised by ACAS by holiday entitlement should be 17 days because of bank holiday entitlement (but I didn't work a Monday)

LateToTheParty · 15/09/2017 07:02

When I went part time but still worked 5 (shorter) days per week, my annual leave entitlement didn't change. (HR had to explain it to my manager, who had assumed my entitlement would reduce).

Evelynismyspyname · 15/09/2017 07:12

When I worked 20 hours I still got 30 bookable days holiday, but each day "counted" as 4 hours instead of 8 in terms of being paid for holiday.

I hope that makes sense.

I work shifts in a 7 days a week environment, so having reduced holiday entitlement really kicks as nobody has set days, unlike part time people in other environments who always work the same days and only need half the holiday allowance because they only need to take 2.5 days holiday to get a week off.

Annualised hours are the fairest way anyway.

CWG17 · 15/09/2017 07:23

Even if it was based on the full time hours/day, I still don't think it's right. You are working the equivalent of 80% of the full time job in hours, which would be 26.4 days of holiday at the full time rate.

It really depends on how you are set up behind the scenes and whether they have made 1 working day = 1 holiday day = 6 hours or not.

Everyone is entitled to a minimum of 5.6 weeks of holiday at their normal rate, which for you is 28 days @ 6 hours/day, or 168 hours.

You are not allowed to be treated less favourably because you are part time, however if the company has decided to not offer ANYONE who starts from here on in 33 days, that would be fine. Change in contracts and all that.