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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this holiday allowance is unfair?

164 replies

QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 20:14

Sorry, I know this should probably be in the Work section, but I needed somewhere with more traffic so I can make a decision quickly.

I have recently accepted an offer of employment from a company who I really like the look of - many former colleagues work there and seem to like it. They have also been really flexible and agreed to let me work part time hours, but spread over 5 days, so 6 hours per day.

Today I received the usual paperwork to sign, including my contract of employment. It all seems as expected, except that it specifies that my holiday entitlement is 25 days (including public holidays), on a pro rata basis, with a full-time employee getting 33 days. This doesn't seem fair to me, after all, it would take me exactly the same number of holiday days to take a week off as a full-time employee, so why should I get fewer? (I had previously negotiated a similar working pattern with my current employer, changing from 4 full days to 5 shorter ones, and they were going to increase my holiday allowance to that of a full-time employee, which suggests that I'm not being totally unreasonable to think this would be fair!)

Does anyone have a working pattern like this and can you tell me whether you get the full holiday entitlement? Or is there anyone out there who works in HR who knows what would be standard practice?

I'm hoping that they just haven't thought this through, otherwise it feels a bit like they're trying to take the piss. And I'm not sure that I want to work for them if they are! Either way, I think it's a deal breaker for me unless they change this - I'd be sad to walk away, but I'm prepared to do it!

What do you think?

OP posts:
fascicle · 14/09/2017 21:10

Newtssuitcase
It is completely clear cut.

Agreed. Number of days for OP = same as f/t employees, so number of days' holiday entitlement must be the same. The difference in hours worked is reflected in holiday pay. No need for anybody here to perform calculations based on hours OP works.

MyPatronusIsAUnicorn · 14/09/2017 21:13

I have just negotiated a very similar set up.

I went on the system to request a day off, it's calculated in hours. I accidentally ticked a day off which reduced my holiday hours by 7.5 but when I realised and changed it to part day off and specified 6 hours which is my working day, my holiday hours then rightly reduced by 6 hours. Of course you won't get 33 days off. As others have said it needs to be done by hours.

mirime · 14/09/2017 21:15

I had a very similar thing in my current job. Confused the hell out of the finance officer/office manager (very small organisation, only four workers at the time), we switched to hours rather than days and it was all fine.

CoffeeCupCake · 14/09/2017 21:33

Of course you won't get 33 days off. As others have said it needs to be done by hours.

But that's the point, she will get 33 days off. She works the same number of days as the full-timers, so gets the same number of holiday days. It only needs to be done by hours if the part-timer works fewer days.

OP - I would just say there's been a mistake in the number of holiday days on your contract and could they please correct it to 33 days including public holidays.

Original poster
QueenOfThorns · 14/09/2017 21:37

Coffee, I hope it is a mistake, but it's very clearly written - your hours are these, over 5 days, and therefore you will get this many days of holiday....

Anyway, I have written to them to query it and will have to see what they say! Fingers crossed that it can be sorted, or I'll have to start looking again. Sad

OP posts:
stopfuckingshoutingatme · 14/09/2017 21:40

It's normal practice OP

BestIsWest · 14/09/2017 21:42

Of course you won't get 33 days off.

Of course she should. She's entitled to the same number of days as anyone else who works 5 days.

She will be paid less for each one of those days.

SweetIcedTea · 14/09/2017 21:42

Every year I get sent a leave card expressed in hours and I send it back to be corrected into days. I don't think that many part timers work 5 days so it does cause some confusion.

BestIsWest · 14/09/2017 21:46

I've done both.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 14/09/2017 21:47

Some earlier nailed it

If you did the same hours but in 3 days , you would only need to take 3 days holiday to get a whole week off

So the shorter days disadvantage you when it comes to this

You might want to consider doing days and then you get a better deal for holidays ??

CoffeeCupCake · 14/09/2017 21:48

I hope they understand what they have done wrong when they look at it again for you. If you don't get a favourable response, asking them to calculate your pro-rata leave in hours might work, as long as they start the calculation from scratch and get it out of their heads that you're only entitled to 25 days. Make sure you ask for your query to be referred to someone else before you give up the job, that would be such a shame over a simple mathematical comprehension issue!

MothQuandary · 14/09/2017 21:50

I assume they mean "you get 24 full-time days' worth of hours".
i.e. you get 25 x 7.5 hours = 187.5 hours.
You work a 6 hour day so that's 31.25 days.
Hmmm, so still not quite right, actually!!

My advice is always assume cock up before conspiracy! It's usually illegal to discriminate against part-time workers: it disproportionately affects women so is indirect sex discrimination. So it's very unlikely they will be deliberately giving you less leave. It's much more likely that they've not properly explained themselves or it's just a mistake.

iamyourequal · 14/09/2017 21:51

The OP is working exactly 80% of FT hours and should therefore get 80% of the holiday entitlement
In this case that's 198 hours per year. (6/7.5) x (33days x7.5hours). This works out as 33 of her 6 hour days, but, crucially 26.4 FT days. She has been told she will get 25 days so so is being done!

MothQuandary · 14/09/2017 21:51

Obviously, I meant 25 hours in that first line...

MothQuandary · 14/09/2017 21:52

... days, even...

Purdyandwheezy · 14/09/2017 21:58

Oh maybe it means 25 full time days so whenever you book a day it only deducts 0.8 (or whatever) from that 25. Not done the maths but would that work out?

CoffeeCupCake · 14/09/2017 22:00

Some earlier nailed it If you did the same hours but in 3 days , you would only need to take 3 days holiday to get a whole week off
But you'd only have 3/5 of the holiday days available to take (assuming contracts were fair and even) so you'd still get the same number of weeks off.

SweetIcedTea · 14/09/2017 22:01

Doing it in hours is just unnecessarily complicated for you and whoever has to approve and/or record your annual leave.

HelloDoris · 14/09/2017 22:04

My work did this to me. I work 8:30-2:45 5 days a week, I was told my holiday was 5 days less then full time workers. I just pulled up the UK government website and showed them they were wrong. I am entitled to the same number of days as a full time member of staff just at my normal day rate not at full time rate. I think the confusion came as we have part time members who work 4 days and so their holiday entitlement is different.

nottwins · 14/09/2017 22:06

I do the same as you and it took about three goes to explain to HR why I needed the same number of days off as a full-timer (which works out as fewer hours, as pp have expressed it). Doubt they're being deliberately unhelpful.

Incidentally, I actually work different numbers of hours on different days - I asked how this would be taken into account (otherwise I could do really well out of always taking the day off when I'm meant to do extra hours!) and it confused HR so much that we just stuck with the standard number of days.

CoffeeCupCake · 14/09/2017 22:06

Doing it in hours is just unnecessarily complicated for you and whoever has to approve and/or record your annual leave.

True, but doing the calculation in that way should at least get to the correct figure for the OP, if they can't get their heads round the idea that she should have 33 days.

valeinoyikbuno · 14/09/2017 22:07

It's fine for your allowance to be 25 days so long as each time you get a day off it only takes 0.75 of a day from your stock of leave days. If they take 1 day off the leave each time you take 6hrs off then your entitlement is 33 days.

WaxOnFeckOff · 14/09/2017 22:15

I do similar except I work 6.5 hours per day 5 days a week. I get my allocation in hours. However it seems to take forever for people to understand that it works out at exactly the same amount of days as full time person. It gets confusing as I work with a colleague who works part time hours the same as me but over 4 days so her hours obviously work out at less days. We understand it fine but the succession of managers we have can't get their head around it fro some reason. It gets really complicated when it comes to public holidays though...

MrsPinkCock · 14/09/2017 22:16

Also an employment lawyer and I agree entirely with @Newtssuitcase

It isn't difficult - you get the full 33 day entitlement, but paid at a 6 hour rate instead of a 7.5/8 hour rate or whatever the FT equivalent is.

It's amazing how often this crops up for PT workers - so many HR departments are utterly incompetent. I even had to have this argument with my own HR Dept but fortunately they knew better than to argue with an employment lawyer

BrieAndChilli · 14/09/2017 22:20

I work 5 days not only 3 hours a day.

I get just as many holiday days as full times who work 8 hours a day.

I get paid for 15 hours a week and a FT gets paid for 40 hours.
We both take 5 days holiday - I am therefore getting 15 hours off work (5 of my days) and they are getting 40 hours (5 of thier days off)
We still both get paid our normal salary.

If you worked different hours on different days e.g. 3 hours on Monday, 6 hours on tues etc then the above wouldn't work so would need to be calculated in hours or if you only worked 3 days then your holiday would be 3/5 of a full time worker.

Essentially the law is you need enough Holliday to be able to take 5.6 weeks off work (regardless of what hours you work) as a minimum but some companies do give more than that so you need to make sure you are able to take the same amount of weeks off as a full time 8 hours a day person.