15 year old daughter has just walked out of the house

[krustykittens]

More of a WWYD. Eldest DD is great most of the time. Funny, smart, great company, is fairly open with myself and her Dad. But she is so arrogant. Doesn't treat her little sister very well, constantly talks down to her and makes her feel stupid, has to argue black is white with us the whole time, ruins days out as result. It is exhausting and tedious. Then when she screws up, it is an all out screaming match, she NEVER admits she is in the wrong. I had a letter home from school today, basically saying she had to be taken out of her maths class for constantly disrupting it and that we are to talk to her. I call her in, not very happy and I read out the letter to her. Of course, it's all rubbish, she's not in the wrong, she refuses to discuss it. Now she has walked out of the house with no phone and we have no idea where she is. I have had enough. Everything is fine until we have to tell her off for something, then all we get is sneering and contempt. She has ruined the last two Christmasses and I am actually looking forward to her leaving home to go to university. It's not a teenage thing either, she has been like this since she was nine. She basically has some unpleasant character traits that she doesn't seem to grow out of or learn from. What would you do to punish her or just get it through her thick skull that admitting you are in the wrong and saying sorry is a much nicer way to live your life than acting the victim and treating others like shit?! Who the hell is going to put up with this once she is an adult?

Oh , God, I laughed at that! My friend and her daughter had awful, screaming rows constantly. She couldn't figure out why, she is happily married to her father, two younger boys who couldn't be more different. I must admit, I was a bit shocked she sent her to boarding school but her daughter said she was glad to go and once they were apart, she really missed her mum and looked forwarding to seeing her. They went from not speaking, to planning what they would do during the holidays. It's just bloody hard finding what works and I think what other posters have said shows that sometimes, nothing is going to work and you just have to grit your teeth for a little while.

Have to say, although I agree that getting rid of the horse wouldn't be fair on the horse, and some posters are reaching a bit in their interpretation of your OP:

Have you any idea how hostile, sneering, patronising and aggressive some of your posts are in response to suggestions/interpretations you don't agree with are? Your daughter's volatility is part and parcel of being a teenager, as is rowing with her sibling. But the way she blows up, can't take criticism, or admit fault, and what you describe as her arrogance and sneering - well let's just say I don't think those methods of expressing herself dropped out of a clear blue sky. You might want to give a bit of thought to the behaviour you are modelling to her - can YOU "take a telling", OP? Or do you blow up first and apologise later?

Yes, I can take a telling. The whole reason why this behaviour upsets myself and DH is that we both feel it is important that people own up to their mistakes and say sorry, and we do it ourselves. We want our children to have the same standards, the same way we teach them not to steal, because again, we don't do it. I have taken on board people saying, "use different techniques, talk to her about her self esteem, be careful how you respond to her apologies, perhaps you are expecting too much etc." I did apologise before disagreeing with the poster who was projecting but she said herself she might be. But when people say I shouldn't set standards for them as a parent and ask if my child is only nice because she needs to earn my love, I do get impatient. When someone tells me I don't show my child love or kindness or spend time with her based no evidence at all, I do get exasperated. And when someone espouses a course of action that is cruel to a child and an animal, accuses my child of taking her anger out on animal based on mis-information and then tells me I gave the child the pony as a reward for bad behaviour, well, cruelty and ignorance do not deserve a nice response. I don't have to be nice to people who are downright rude, they get the same response back. I didn't even reply to the poster who seems to think I shouldn't tell her off for behaving badly "because kids don't like being told off".

Sometimes it helps to do the opposite from your current reactions.

Unbelievably, my dd reacted positively to hugs. I finally, after a few years, said, "ok, chastising you doesn't work, so i am going to give you a hug."

She resists, i have to chase her, but i get a quick arms around her for a second. It was actually better than i ever hoped. I was surprised that it worked. It was a moment of desperation. But now she is back to being an occasional human and she gives me hugs now.

If she is not mentally ill, (some children have true problems)sometimes teens are incapable of telling us that they need affection or assurance of love.

Maybe try it without major words?

I realize that we are supposed to respect boundaries but giving a cheeky teen a hug worked for me.

Abbylee I am willing to try! She is very tactile, loves to cuddle and snuggle up next to me on the sofa. The problem that we have in this particular situation is that what caused the argument still has to be addressed. She was talking to me tonight and making me cups of tea, but we have to circle back round to this. We have had a letter from the school, we need to talk about it. She has always been a chatter box and her teachers have complained since primary school that she finishes her work quickly and then tries to talk to other pupils, which is disruptive and unfair. I suppose now, her behaviour has become more serious and they have to deal with it now they are doing exams - it is no longer just a bit annoying. We have got to resolve this with the school and I don't know the best way to do it. We need to get through to her, without any arguing, that disrupting other kids is not OK and she needs to stop.

I genuinely don't think she has any mental health issues, nothing has ever been flagged up with us, no one has ever expressed concerns. She is bright, bubbly, chatty, always keen to tell me about her day when she comes home. The girl politics is a minefield but from talking to other parents, it doesn't seem to be abnormally so. I will try and see if she is willing to admit to any self esteem issues - I know I was a mess at that age!

This is such a shame. She sounds like a right cunt, but hopefully she'll grow out of it.

I'm sorry that you are struggling. Is she extremely bright? That could be a burden on both sides of the problem at school.

If the school is going to punish her, we never piled on top of that. Help her with coping strategies? Be kind and offer some sympathy?

I feel especially bad about your Christmas times. I would tell her bluntly that i want to fix the problem. Ask her how?

Idk much, but having the hug work seemed so astonishing that i wanted to share it.

I told her, "i cant punish you into behaving. So, I'm gonna hug you."

BEST wishes.

It sounds as if she has no clear sense of boundaries if she joins in when you are telling off DD2 for something, refuses to apologise, and tries to dominate. Also, coming in and offering to cook dinner and making you cups of tea is wanting to start again but on her terms and without an apology and without addressing the original issue.

I would get her assessed for a personality disorder. PDs emerge in adolescence.
I would also get her assessed for autism spectrum issues, ADHD and ADD too, in light of the chatterbox comment.

Like GreenBeret, I am divorced from a man who did not outgrow this sort of behaviour. It is one thing to see it in a teenage girl and another entirely to see a grown man throwing strops, never, ever admitting he was wrong, and shouting at people who gave him good advice or even tried to suggest a common sense approach, (eg, 'We need to measure the windows before we go out to buy blinds,' was greeted with a door slamming tantrum and the bellowed command, 'Don't tell me what to do!' followed by the purchase of blinds that didn't fit, and another tantrum when this became obvious).

Nobody in the family but him was allowed to be angry about anything.

AJPTaylor has some great advice:
"Mr Brown tells me that you have done x y and z. You are going to deny it and tell me hates you. I therefore believe him. Because he had better things than make this stuff up. School are going to do xyz punishment. I am going to do a. No further discussion". Then I would leave the house
Don't ask what she did or get her to admit it.
Do not get sucked into arguments - it takes two to dance that dance.
Tell her what you have seen or heard, tell her the consequences, tell her you have no interest in what she has to say in her defence, and walk away.
Tell her you are sorry she feels that way when she gives you a display of rage.

Mimsy, honestly, she really isn't like this all the time. Most of the time she is a love. Then there are days when she will argue for an hour that a mockingjay was an actual bird and we couldn't wait to get to an area with mobile reception to prove it was made up for the Hunger Games books! There is no room for doubt, which when she rides, is a great thing. She is bold and brave and gives her pony confidence. Other times, not so much. Also, calling a child a cunt - really?

Abbeylee I think the school has already punished her in that they gave her some time in a room all by herself. I don't know if they are going to do anything else, I need to talk to them tomorrow. She is very bright and I think that when she chatters to others still working, she is not taking into consideration that others may not find the tasks as easy as her and it is really causing them problems when she distracts them. It's not that she doesn't care, teachers have told me she goes out of her way to help her friends in class but she needs to see things from other people's point of view and adjust her behaviour accordingly. It is not fair for her to indulge herself at others expense, even if means no harm.

Mathan I will talk to her teacher but no offence, I really, really hope you are wrong! I wouldn't describe her as an angry child, most of the time she is sunny and chatty. She doesn't have boundaries with her little sister but I think this is because when her sister was very young she had some developmental problems which held her back socially for a while. She was very dependent on her big sister when around other children so DD1 is very maternal. I constantly have to tell her off for telling her little sister off - it's my job to tell her to tidy her room and bring her dirty washing down, not her sisters. The flip side is that she will go out of her way for her and do far too much for her and her little sister will take advantage of that! I can't tell you if she is domineering with her friends - now that they are older they tend to go off so I don't see much interaction. But I will bring it up with the school and yes, I do think AJPTaylor's advice is the right course of action. No discussion, no engaging. It's not doing either of us any good!

exH could do sunny and chatty too. He just refused to accept any difference of opinion or any suggestions as to how to do things, or any criticism, and everything had to be on his terms, so he never admitted he was in the wrong and never apologised. The day I called the police on him for hitting me, he labeled 'the day you wanted me put in jail'.

As a parent, he sucked. He admitted to me (at an ill-fated marriage retreat we went to) that in his opinion our children should be happy when he wanted them to be happy and upset when he wanted them to be upset.

The 'seeking control' elements of your posts rang a bell with me. Your DD won't accept that other people have a right to their feelings or that she is accountable to you. It seems to me that she has a great need to be in control.

By the same token, why are you getting into arguments with her about the mockingjay? You can roll your eyes among yourselves and let that sort of thing pass. You say she argued for an hour, but you argued too, for an hour, about a very trivial thing.

And yeah, a kid that works hard at school, gets good grades, cares for her pony, helps around the house - yep, no respect at all.

From what you've posted -
She isn't working hard at school if her teachers are sending letters home about her rude and disruptive behaviour

She's shown that she CAN control her behaviour and attitude at her clubs and towards the people there - yet she consciously chooses NOT to give that same respect to her family on a regular basis.

She knows exactly how and when to 'love bomb' you in order to manipulate you - and it's working. Don't delude yourself that the little she does around the house is out of 'respect' for you because she doesn't have much - if any.
She just knows how to control you.

Ffs, mathan. Do you have teenage girls or are you a teacher? You are way too serious about talking during class. It wasnt smoking in the bathroom.

Ignore that disorder stuff kk. Your dd sounds like a normal pain in the butt teenage girl.

Nobody likes to admit wrongness. Create an environment where it is not going to hurt more than it should to admit it. I tell dc that they will screw up; its how they handle it that counts.

I would take her kindness tonight as an olive branch. I would also not hold up the phone as punishment. Phones are not just for pleasure, they are safety nets.

I mentioned illness bc i wanted to qualify my remarks in case she was diagnosed with something like that and didnt want to annoy you. I never meant that she was.

Teachers are people. They have long or short fuses. My ds is dyslexic. I have been abused by his teachers during conversations. I know that he has been repeatedly been misunderstood and punished for little reasons.

I never presumed that one or the other is correct. I know my dc. They are usually good kids but not perfect. I know that kids can be labeled by teachers and that makes life difficult for children and parents bc we must have them attend school and learn to function within systems.
Try to find strategies for dd to cope with early finishing and find out what she can do in class if she finishes early from teacher.

The frustrations that you are feeling about outings, holidays, etc. Are different issues than this school one.

I have told my dc frankly that they hurt my feelings, that family comes first so we need to fix the problem.

Siblings boss each other, that is normal. My dc now want to share housing at university! But are worried that i wont be there to referee. I laughed bc they have worked together many times with taking care of one another bc of needing support.

Only you know what your dd is about. But teenage girls are crazyand make us crazy. Keep your chin up, if you know that she cares about your family and it seems that she does, try to give her ways to communicate while still being her parent.

I told my ds that the ONLY things that i had going for me with dd was she talked to her dad and she thought that i had super powers of finding out what she was up to.

In reality, she loves us. I think that your dd is tough now but loves her family. It will be okay. ((())) that madhugger needs to show up. Next time say your dd is parking in the neighbor's drive.

Btw, both dc are at university in spite of being the bane of more than one teacher's existence and parents telling me that i was not strict enough. Family first, you are loved and needed is my mantra. BEST to you.

Would you tell someone to re-home a cat or a dog to punish their child

No. I made my suggestion to you based on context.

If I were in your shoes and my child had been showing this kind of behaviour, for that length of time and with that much regularity, and all my other methods/attempts at discipline had failed; as a LAST resort i would use this as a consequence after having given a last warning

Why? Because teaching my child manners, respect and boundaries is much more important.

Yes, it would break my heart to re-home a loved pet, no it isn't fair on the animal...but if a child can't or won't treat the humans in their family with respect then they have no right owning an animal.
It's a privilege that has to be earned AND maintained.
If they can treat an animal with love and care then they are capable of being like at home.

A child does NOT get to call the shots like this in the family.

*Do you actually have kids, or just cats you think you birthed?

I don't have biological kids but i have raised five children to adulthood....i must have done something right because they are nothing like your dd and never were.

If this is how you respond to a poster's innocent suggestion of selling the pony, is it any wonder your dd has turned out the way she has?
The apple didn't fall from the tree did it?

far

*far from the tree

I dunno HeebieJeebies. You seem pretty aggressive, nasty and unwilling to be told that you're wrong to me.

It's not a good colour on a teenager. It's a bloody awful one on an adult.

perhaps you should read my original post and then compare it to OP's nasty and aggressive response.
You might also want to read her posts where she is unwilling to be 'told she's wrong'

As OP said, if she perceives someone is being rude and nasty - she responds in kind.
So i've just treated her by her own rules....

Fucking hell this thread is bonkers

Since when did being chatty become a cause for concern and the mention of ASD etc become necessary?

Mimsy , did you honestly just call her DD a cunt?!

That is vile.

heebie I suggest you reflect on why you are the only poster advocating taking away her pony.
You come across as quite arrogant tbh. And overinvested in this thread.

goalie I am hoping mimsy is just a goady fucker rather than a genuine poster. That post was vile.