Religion

[crazydil]

There have been a few threads in regards to religion and without exception there are always a few posters who cannot help themselves from being disrespectful.

Is it difficult to get a point across without a slight dig? Criticism is part of a healthy discussion but to be so rude about something that is very important to some. ..is it really needed?
I've never felt the need to be rude about anyones belief no matter how strange I find it to be.

So basically aibu in expecting respect in any conversation

On what bases? If they are only stories, then the faith is based on empty meaning.

@EdmundCleverClogs

Not at all. They can still believe in a God and believe these stories serve a purpose either allegorically or just in the same way we read Aesops Fables find a meaning and message from them that's both comforting and inspiring or even convicting

Tbh I thought that's what most CofE Christians did believe might be wrong

It's only the fundamentalists I think who take it so literally and even then the extreme fundamentalists who take ALL of it so literally

The religious want it both ways. They want the freedom to preach and proselytize. But demand special protections and 'respect' for their views so they can't be properly scrutinised, assessed and if necessary mocked and ridiculed, in the same way that any other idea someone might subscribe to, like vegetarianism or socialism. They can't have it both ways.

I respect people's right to hold whatever religious views they like (however much I disagree with them).

However I don't respect religions or the views themselves. To my mind religion should be like wanking, no place for it in public, but fine in the privacy of your own home or in a room full of like minded people.

they feel modest, they get less attention, they keep their bodies for viewing by who they choose I don't know I'm not religious anymore, it's how I felt when I was

I find this argument interesting, and also the 'modest dress'. In the UK surely you are drawing more attention to yourself by fully covering?

Neither of my grandmothers ever wore trousers, it wasn't something nice girls did, unless it was part of your uniform in WWII.

Not at all. They can still believe in a God and believe these stories serve a purpose either allegorically or just in the same way we read Aesops Fables find a meaning and message from them that's both comforting and inspiring or even convicting

But the bases of the belief is from the stories of god. So if they are just stories, the god itself is just a story and requires no 'believing' in. Like reading any other work of fiction and saying 'I like those stories about Ancient Greece, so I'm going to believe in the power of Zeus', or 'I know Harry Potter is just a story, but I believe Dumbledore will come back to life and save us one day'.

There isn't a god to you Edmund, I don't need 'proof' to believe or have faith.

I don't understand many scientific equations, still see the effects of gravity though. Definitely don't understand anti matter or that thing where an electron (?) can be in two places and NEITHER at once.

Still accept that there's :

1. Some shit I don't understand
2. Some shit isn't explainable yet like anti matter

I'm not lumping 'God' in with the above but I SEE the existence of god around me in the people I love much in the same way I see gravity.

I SEE the existence of god around me in the people I love much in the same way I see gravity.

You don't and can't. That's like comparing chalk and cheese.

Not understanding something but knowing there is an explanation with plenty of evidence to back it up, and choosing to believe something without any evidence to back it up are two opposing things. There is no God to me because for something to exist, it must have some, any, evidence that goes beyond human imagination. If you want to have faith based on the latter, go right ahead, that's the individual choice.

However to believe something as real when there's zero evidence for it doesn't mean it deserves respect and certainly not public recognition. People can keep all the faith they want, pick and choose whichever parts of faith they want. That faith shouldn't be part of anything other than that individual's private life though. It's when it's brought into other people's lives that we have problems in society.

Some shit isn't explainable yet like anti matter
So therefore god exists?

FYI take a physics class, anti matter has been explained, we can even produce it.

I can accept that. You show me evidence that the vast majority of women around the world who cover do so entirely of their own free will and could go out uncovered this afternoon and suffer no consequences then I retract everything I've said.
Why don't you show me evidence that the majority don't cover of their own free will?!

sashh Muslims are told to dress differently to non Muslims and it's not considered immodest or a negative thing for us to stand out amongst them if we are observing correct hijab. A Muslim should not stand out amongst other Muslims.

ncdasembarrassed Thats true for some and I know a few women who cover for purely cultural or aesthetic reasons or to make a political statement. Generally though I've found women in the west who wear niqab are usually very religious.

2. Some shit isn't explainable yet like anti matter

Anti matter is understood. It can be measured and produced in a laboratory.

Ok so maybe anti matters not a fantastic example but the point is that there is loads of shit we're still discovering and still proving - that's why we call it scientific progress, things progress.

I think there's lots of 'evidence' for there being a god.

But we have reached an impasse, I can't prove my belief or faith.

Interesting stuff on wiki about anti matter and anti particles traveling backwards in time. Plenty of science is a proper interesting head fuck.

I think there's lots of 'evidence' for there being a god

Name one.

I think there's lots of 'evidence' for there being a god.

But we have reached an impasse, I can't prove my belief or faith.

If there's lots of evidence of a god, why can't you prove your beliefs? That's a complete contradiction.

How come no one of faith can give any solid examples of there being a god, except what they see themselves? If science can have hypothesis then go on to prove or disprove them, why can't religion move past the hypothesis stage and put to bed any questions about the existence of a deity?

There is a 'lot of shit' we're discovering. Every single thing we go out to discover turns out to be not magic or deity-related. Millions of years of human evolution and discovery, yet no one has found god (in the physical and literal sense). You'd think there would be some evidence of any God by now, considering how far we've come in our abilities to provide evidence for our theories.

The evidence for God is subjective

Some find enough in history
Some find enough in nature
Some find enough in experience

Some don't...

The evidence for God is subjective

That's not evidence.

That's a viewpoint.

So no evidence then.

The evidence for God is subjective

I don't think you know what 'evidence' means. I hope you don't work in law enforcement or as a lawyer/judge if you think evidence is 'subjective'....

I can't 'prove' it, that's why they call it faith

But I do think there's evidence. Jesus being crucified and being seen after death. Intelligent design. The prophecies about Christ coming true.

But the leap from any evidence you look for is always going to be faith and personal experience. Which you've already said you're not interested in. And that's fine.

I already said I don't think religion should interfere in schools and politics. But I'm still entitled to my private faith.

I agree with you OP

@Cailleach666 yes viewpoint but it is "THEIR" evidence

It may not be enough for you to believe in a God. It is for them.

Simple!

"The evidence for God is subjective"

No such thing as subjective evidence. If it subjective it's not evidence, it's opinion.

yes viewpoint but it is "THEIR" evidence

Umm, there's no such thing. Either it's evidence or it's not. Either there's proof or there isn't. Saying 'I have evidence of this thing, but you can't hear or see it!' completely negates the point. As pp said, that makes it opinion and speculation, not evidence.

*ncdasembarrassed
@Cailleach666 yes viewpoint but it is "THEIR" evidence

It may not be enough for you to believe in a God. It is for them.

Simple!*

But that doesn't make it true.

I may have believe I have a lucky purple hippo living behind my sofa.
I know he exists because I asked him for luck and the next day my daughter passed her maths test.

Would you be convinced of my purple hippo- especially as I have "evidence"

Well no religious person puts their beliefs on trial for those who don't believe do they?

They feel there's enough evidence to believe. You feel there isn't enough evidence to believe

Unless they're attempting to evangelise you... why do they need to prove to you the existence of God?

They already have enough 'proof' for themselves for whatever reason

Unless they're attempting to evangelise you... why do they need to prove to you the existence of God?

As I have said a hundred times here, if religion was a private thing, I personally couldn't care less. However, since it impacts us all, is forced upon society in ways we cannot avoid, yes I absolutely believe that religion as a whole needs to either be proven absolute or to be stripped of it social status.