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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Religion

503 replies

crazydil · 12/09/2017 11:48

There have been a few threads in regards to religion and without exception there are always a few posters who cannot help themselves from being disrespectful.

Is it difficult to get a point across without a slight dig? Criticism is part of a healthy discussion but to be so rude about something that is very important to some. ..is it really needed?
I've never felt the need to be rude about anyones belief no matter how strange I find it to be.

So basically aibu in expecting respect in any conversation

OP posts:
MaidOfStars · 15/09/2017 02:55

Why don't you tell us what happens to gay people in SA? I'd love to hear your special pleading.

StatelessPrincess · 15/09/2017 05:01

Assuming that's directed at me I'd love it if you would actually read my posts. No idea why I even contribute to these threads anymore

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 15/09/2017 09:09

Burma ?
You mean Myanmar- what part are Christians playing there?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 15/09/2017 09:16

And then we do and nobody wants to listen or if they do its usually just to tell us that we're wrong or brainwashed so our experiences don't count, that we cant possibly be happy even if we think we are

Not what I said. You think Saudi is lovely. It suits you because you are happy to fall in with the religious rules and are rich enough to afford a driver. You seem to have little understanding of anyone not in your situation because they are just a minority and you don't know them.

I suspect non believing homosexuals won't exactly be leaping up and down and drawing attention to themselves.

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2017 09:17

"habanero Not driving wasn't a problem for me or any of the women I know"

This puzzles me. I accept that it was't a practical problem for you, but do you not object on principle to not being allowed to drive?

StatelessPrincess · 15/09/2017 09:25

because they are just a minority yes I believe they are too, that's exactly the point I've been making Lass. Also, I believe that lots of Burmese people continue to call the country Burma, they don't believe the military government who changed the name to be legitimate, so it's not actually wrong to call it that.

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2017 09:28

"People, especially western atheist women, don't want to hear what we have to say unless we're agreeing with them."

I absolutely do want to hear what you have to say.

StatelessPrincess · 15/09/2017 09:31

Bertrand I think women not being allowed to drive is a stupid law with no basis in Islam. The roads there are really unsafe actually, there are a lot of accidents and I do wonder if the number will go down when the law is changed.

Blink66 · 15/09/2017 09:32

Religion is just a set of beliefs - each should be actively respected and ridiculed like any other beliefs.

If people believe in religion without major caveats then my respect for the person significantly decreases. This is because a) they are easily manipulated into having beliefs without questioning those beliefs and considering the evidence and b) do not have their own mind to determine their own beliefs based on their own experiences.

I suspect most people would ridicule someone who said the world was flat. The overwhelming evidence is that it is not. Whilst the morals may end up being good, its time for anyone with any intelligence to dispense with god - hearing voices would point to something wrong, this is no different.

In my opinion we need to ensure people who hold such completely irrational views are not protected, but are recognised as needing help and also the public needs protecting from them. In a public sector job interviews you wouldn’t employ someone who was so stupid to believe the world was flat, and neither should you employ someone who believes in such irrational thought taught by religions.

Original poster
crazydil · 15/09/2017 10:01

Lass I said mainly. Anyway in regards to Saudi, I don't think that country can be held up as the model islamic country. Which is quite sad seeing its the birthplace of Islam. Now that I think of it..places of religious significance are generally ruled by incredibly corrupt people. Saudi is pretty corrupt and so is Israel and so is the Vatican....is the vatican governed by the Pope? Dumb question???Blush

OP posts:
Blink66 · 15/09/2017 10:11

Religion has always been a control mechanism - and it is still being used to either suppress and control weak and vulnerable people.

existentialmoment · 15/09/2017 10:13

Not driving wasn't a problem for me or any of the women I know there as we were in a large city and had drivers and/or access to taxis. I can imagine for women who don't, or who live in more rural areas it must be really inconvenient

Inconvenient? Not being allowed, by law, to do something as simple as drive and you class that as merely incovenient?

I find it interesting that Muslim women are always being told that we are subjugated, that we don't have a voice and that we need to speak up for ourselves. And then we do and nobody wants to listen or if they do its usually just to tell us that we're wrong or brainwashed so our experiences don't count, that we cant possibly be happy even if we think we are

Well if you will come out with unmitigated shit like "I don't know anyone in Saudi who is oppressed" then what do you expect? How about every single woman in Saudi for a start? I could name you a hundred ways that women are oppressed in Saudi, I'm sure you'd have a silly response to all of them though.

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2017 10:13

I find it very hard to maintain patience with people of any religion who say"Oh, but that's nothing to do with Islam/Christianity/ Judaism/any other religion" when they are questioned about the unpleasant things that are happening in association with their faith.

starlightinheaven · 15/09/2017 10:17

OP, I agree. I will not mention my faith here but I respect the rights of people of other faiths and am not rude to them. It i snot that hard to just be polite, whether you agree or not. So many people are so rude these days!!! (dons little old lady frown)

existentialmoment · 15/09/2017 10:20

They say "Oh thats not real Islam"...well tell that to the people doing it in the name of Islam. Tell the Mutaween that it's not actually Islamic to arrest and beat women for not being covered enough, or talking to an unrelated man, see how far you get Hmm

Hey StatePrincess, remember the 15 girls who died because they weren't allowed to leave the school they were in that was on fire, because they weren't covered up enough and all the fire service were men? Were they not oppressed either?

SunSeptember · 15/09/2017 10:32

Anyway in regards to Saudi, I don't think that country can be held up as the model islamic country

Personally I wasn't trying to hold it up as a model Islamic country. But your implying you feel there is a model Islamic country, which one can you suggest?

YY its well known, discussed and talked about the Vatican....its openly out there. NO where to hide anymore. Poor DM was shocked when she went and saw its riches towards the end of her life, and she said to think my DF father of 8 used to put a tiny piece of his low builders wage into the church collection....she was really hurt actually.

SunSeptember · 15/09/2017 10:33

remember the 15 girls who died because they weren't allowed to leave the school they were in that was on fire, because they weren't covered up enough and all the fire service were men? Were they not oppressed either?
Oh goodness I had forgotten that Sad

existentialmoment · 15/09/2017 10:38

The argument that Islam oppresses women because Saudi is untrue and very tired

It isn't though is it? Saudi DOES oppress women, severely. And they do it in the name of Islam, and they do it using Islam as their sword and shield. So if you have a problem with people thinking that Islam oppresses women because of Saudi, take it up with the muslim men who are creating that impression, rather than the people with eyes who can see it happening.
I wonder how far you would get in Saudi criticising the religious interpretation of the government?

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2017 10:41

Is there a truly Islamic country?

Original poster
crazydil · 15/09/2017 10:49

Personally I wasn't trying to hold it up as a model Islamic country. But your implying you feel there is a model Islamic country, which one can you suggest?
None! But then again most countries, if not all, are full of corruption/oppression of the weak.

OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 15/09/2017 11:01

.

LurkingHusband · 15/09/2017 11:12

Massive diversion, but since the discussion touched on science, nature and evolution ...

science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6356/eaan6558

The title: "A cargo-sorting DNA robot" ...

SunSeptember · 15/09/2017 11:58

Is there a truly Islamic country?

Good point, I am not sure how one would define one.

Saudi is pretty much 100% Muslim, it rules according to the Koran and sharia law, so I would say that is is one. But I am no expert on what makes the technical definition.

Other countries like Iran, Pakistan, Oman, Quatar etc I dont know.

SunSeptember · 15/09/2017 11:59

But then again most countries, if not all, are full of corruption/oppression of the weak

But with varying degrees really,

I see Saudi and North Korea in the same boat for instance....at the top of the league.

Original poster
crazydil · 15/09/2017 12:01

Saudi claim to rule in accordance to the Qur'an. Pakistan claim they have sharia law. But neither do

OP posts: