Religion

[crazydil]

There have been a few threads in regards to religion and without exception there are always a few posters who cannot help themselves from being disrespectful.

Is it difficult to get a point across without a slight dig? Criticism is part of a healthy discussion but to be so rude about something that is very important to some. ..is it really needed?
I've never felt the need to be rude about anyones belief no matter how strange I find it to be.

So basically aibu in expecting respect in any conversation

"Do you have anything to say about Islamic extremism, you know the ones who are currently "persecuting killing people."

Yes, loads. You're not playing the "you wouldn't say that about Islam, would you?" card? Please don't.

Anyway, Rose. Back to Christian privilege.........

Yes but to be fair, in many middle eastern countries women don't get the choice. They are forced to wear it, and it symbolises women's oppression under men. The hijab is certainly not worn through choice over there. Women can still be stoned to death for disobeying men
The only countries where hijab is mandatory are Saudi and Iran and a significant proportion of those countries women wear it through choice anyway. What you have said is a ridiculous exaggeration. Women are not stoned to death for disobeying men, It is a punishment for adultery in some countries and not often carried out these days. Muslims in the Middle East make up about 20% of the world's Muslim population and oppressed women are a minority. It isn't even logical to assume that most of us are oppressed. Telling women who are educated, happy and free that they actually aren't is not only incredibly rude and annoying but it completely minimises real abuse and oppression, which affects women from all cultures.

"Telling women who are educated, happy and free that they actually aren't is not only incredibly rude and annoying but it completely minimises real abuse and oppression, which affects women from all cultures."

What % of Muslim women worldwide would you estimate could go out uncovered and suffer no consequences at all?

But perhaps equally foolish to assert that is couldn't have been created by a higher power.

Has anyone done that? Of course, if there was a whopping 'higher power' it could have created a universe. But we come back to, 'but where did that higher power come from'. Saying well, this cosmic supreme intelligence has always existed outside of space and time explains nothing. Sure, creating universe with all its complexities is easy if you start with something infinitely more complex, just like the easiest way to a billion dollars is to begin with two billion.

I'm not playing any card bertrand i just find it strange that on a subject about religion people appear to be free and easy with insults about Catholism, talking about past misdeeds when the religion currently causing most trouble is Islamic extremism....and if people do say "you wouldn't say that about Islam" maybe it's because they don't. Christianity as alway the easy target. Chritianaphobia is just as bad as Islamaphobia you know, though you wouldn't think it on here.

Women are not stoned to death for disobeying men, It is a punishment for adultery in some countries and not often carried out these days.
Oh wow that makes it all right then. Even if only carried out once a year would be far too often, a woman could be stoned to death for having the misfortune to get raped if the man said she seduced him.
Btw most women in the countries where women have to wear the hijab is certainly not through choice. She has no choice.

Life does not pop into existence from nothing

Life on earth did NOT come from nothing, all the building blocks of life where here on earth. So I assume what you are trying to say is that life could not have started without eternal interference. Where is your proof of that?

Just c&p statements does not make them true. We know of only one instance of life starting from scratch, until we have other places where similar life started we probably can't say more. Given the right conditions life might start once every million years. Maybe we were seeded from another world. Maybe Aliens started it all. If external interference is needed god would be way down the list of likely candidates.

Why would a god start life with dinosaurs and then 200 million years later change his mind? Makes no sense, and as Judge Judy likes to say, "If it doesn't make sense it probably isn't true".

Is it just Catholism deserving of karma, any other religions? or would it not be right to mention them I was responding to a specific comment, I am sure what goes around comes around for all religions.

Well if that's the case, that we need another universe to compare with, then we know nothing. Everything must be nonsense
Oh the humanity of it all. We have plenty of most other things inside the closed system of our universe to compare. The universe starting is outside our closed system and we have nothing to compare it with. Are you being deliberately ignorant?

Rose - I think the discussion on this thread re catholics has been fairly even handed. And for the avoidance of doubt... yes, currently, various Islamic sects are probably committing the most and the worst persecutions (against Christians, atheists, other types of Muslims).

Rose. Christian privilege.

Incidentally, I am not a Christianophobic!

God didn't change his mind about dinosaurs, they were there for a reason, and why should anyone be expected to know all the answers. God in his wisdom created dinosaurs. That they're now extinct doesn't prove a thing.

Has it not occurred to you that the only time you'll get evidence is when you die. Why this obsession of "evidence" all the time. Why does God need to provide the kind of evidence which would be deemed acceptable by non believers. He doesn't have to. His evidence is everywhere, it's not His fault if you choose to ignore it

This is classic. If there is evidence all around where is it? please tell us we really want to know! God needs to provide proof if he wants me to believe in him because like more and more people I only want to believe true things. So if god actually existed I have to conclude he doesn't want me to know he exists.

If he did give me proof of his existence he would then have to give me a bloody good reason why I should worship him, because all I have heard of him so far would not cut it.

user oh the irony of calling me ignorant. I'd say anyone who is so close minded that will categorically say "there is no God" is not only ignorant but bonkers. At least have an open mind. Reminds me of those who used to say the earth is flat.

Anyway, i can't keep up with it all. I'm under attack and refuse to get drawn in any more. Argue amongst yourselves.

Roseforarose I dont disagree with what you say about stoning and I personally dont think its an Islamic punishment. I was pointing out that it is not a punishment for disobeying a man and that its not widely carried out as many people mistakenly believe.
Btw most women in the countries where women have to wear the hijab is certainly not through choice. She has no choice I've lived in Saudi and studied in Iran for 4 months, my experiences there mean I completely disagree with this statement but I can only go on what I see and hear myself as there are no official figures. Can't prove my point with evidence unfortunately though neither can you.
Bertrand I wouldn't like to guess, I've never found any official figures of how many women actually cover but I've read estimates that only about 50% of Muslim women actually wear hijab. Out of those left I think its a very small proportion who are forced. I will never understand why hijab is made into such a big issue. The Muslim world has big problems, I wont deny that, but I think women's clothing is pretty insignificant in comparison.

But perhaps equally foolish to assert that is couldn't have been created by a higher power. No one is claiming it isn't possible, but this gets you no where near the worship of the god of the bible.

Simple logic makes it unlikely though, there are reasons and evidence to suggest several of the theories that could explain the universe, not enough to pick one as most likely. But there is no evidence at all of a god and its a pretty bad explanation as well because what created the god how did it create the universe and so on.

Interesting how Rose refuses to address the Christian privilege issue.

i just find it strange that on a subject about religion people appear to be free and easy with insults about Catholism

Mainly because most atheists are interested in the christian religious privilege that discriminates against us. We live in a historically christian country so that is what affects us the most.

Most atheists I know are technically agnostics, accepting the philosophical impossibility of proof either way re the existence or otherwise of a god. Quite a lot of the Christians I know are too - they know their faith is faith.

I've been a believer and now an an unbeliever - so I don't have much time for anyone on either side of this debate who writes off the other side unintelligent or whatever. Personally I think I'm more open minded now, and certainly less ignorant (partly a function of age, of course).

Rose doesn't give the impression of being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

God didn't change his mind about dinosaurs, they were there for a reason Another statement I assume you have no evidence for what so ever.

I'd say anyone who is so close minded that will categorically say "there is no God"

No one on this thread has said that at all. I think when people say "I don't see any reason to believe there is a god", you interpret it to mean "I believe there is no god". They are 2 DIFFERENT things. Are you doing this deliberately?

Interesting how Rose refuses to address the Christian privilege issue

I think, because she doesn't believe she has any, and as a Catholic in certain parts of the UK that may still be true. (The focus on Catholics on this thread came about accidentally via France, I think. )

Its perhaps a bit like blokes who can't see gender inequality because they personally aren't advantaged by being a man?

I'm under attack and refuse to get drawn in any more. Facts will get overwhelm you every time.