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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to sign over half of my flat

186 replies

UnreasonableNotUnreasonable · 12/09/2017 09:45

I've name changed as I feel this could be very outing.

It's a case of AIBU/WWYD.

DH and I have a large mortgage on a flat, that now with 2 little DC, has become very impractical in terms of access to and from it, and to the shared garden. We are on the top floor and there is no lift. Access to the garden is via a metal, spiral staircase, and the garden is not fenced off, and has an access road running along at the bottom of it, as well as another to one side of the garden. There are therefore moving vehicles nearby, and any members of the public or other residents can just enter the garden. We're also not allowed to leave Prams/pushchairs in the communal areas, which makes things extremely awkward, nor are we even allowed any pets (we have a share in freehold, and the management company do not allow pets).

I didn't want to take on such a large mortgage, but DH is a complete snob who will only live in gentrified areas, and will never commute any further than 30 minutes each way for work, which is in the centre of the city. We had to hurry and get a mortgage after 2 years of failing to get on the property ladder, as our deposit was allowing us to get less and less for our money, so I reluctantly agreed to a large mortgage.

DH is from a different culture to me, and he and his family always said not to worry about the mortgage when we start having children, as for them, helping financially and having children are very important. They are a lot more well off than my family, and I've always been financially independent, but 2 of them said they'd pay half of the mortgage for as many years as I wanted to be a SAHM. They assured us there were no ulterior motives or expectations. I was delighted and grateful, but also quite apprehensive as I'm not used to this set up.

Unfortunately, the person who had been helping financially every month, and who we trusted completely, became ill and unable to help. Family member 2 seamlessly stepped in, and the payments continued. We were extremely grateful, but I have never trusted this person, and my DH also doesn't trust him to some extent. I do not want to say why on here (nothing criminal or untoward though!).

Family member 2 has been paying half of our monthly payments for 2 and a half years. He has now said that he wants to own half of our flat, and this will enable him and my DH to release finance from it in order to buy a cheaper property to rent out. He then said that if not enough money could be released, then the money that could be released could be used to pay into our mortgage to reduce our monthly payments, and then he won't have to give us money every month, or can give us a lot less. To make matters worse, we believe that the money he gives us and pretends it's his money, is actually not his, but money from the person who is now too ill to manage their own finances, as this person signed over responsibilities of his finances to him. If so, then he will own half of our flat without having paid a penny of his own money into it! When we do eventually move from here, he'll take half of all of the money and my DH and I won't be able to afford anything.

He has told us that if we don't agree to sign over half of our flat, he'll stop paying half of the mortgage every month! We would lose our home. I'm a SAHM and a part time student who would have to give up studying for her Degree and very quickly try and get a job. I'd have to pay an extortionate rate for nursery for both DC, and would have hardly any money to put towards the mortgage anyway, and would lose our flat. I don't have any family nearby who can offer free childcare.

My DH thinks we should just agree to this scheme, and we keep arguing about it every day. I've suffered with stress and depression before, and all the crying, worry and arguing is really affecting me. I feel a deep anguish, as there is a very easy way out of this situation, as detailed below:

With the equity we have on our flat, we could sell it and just about afford to buy a small house with a garden - outright. I would do this tomorrow, by DH absolutely, point blank refuses as the house would be in a town that borders my parents' town. He doesn't have a problem with them, but he HATES their area and all of those that surround it. In his words, 'they're full of chavs and people who aren't decent, and there are no good shops and facilities, and those areas have nothing going for them.' I disagree with his terminology and the accuracy of what he's saying. He can get to work within 35 minutes from there, property prices are rising very fast, there is a community atmosphere, the shops are fine for day to day and there are many shops and facilities within 15 minutes drive in other towns. Most importantly for me, I could be near to my family and we could support each other, and we could afford the type of family home that we need now, without a mortgage!

DH is in lots of debt, as he always lives beyond his means and cannot borrow any more money to help us buy elsewhere. He works really hard and takes extra hours at work, but if we lived mortgage free near my parents, he wouldn't need to do the extra work and could pay his debts. I've put this to him, but he just calls the areas shitholes and refuses. I think he's really childish and extremely selfish.

DH and I are going around in circles, and the family member has told us that we have 6 months maximum to get half of our flat signed over to him and sort out the release of funds. My family are so worried and annoyed that my DH won't listen to me and do what they and I think is the logical, common sense option.

I feel trapped and like I'm going to have no choice but to sign over half of our flat. My DH and I are usually happy, but this is really affecting us, to the point where I've even considered filing for divorce so that I don't have to be forced into doing something I disagree with. I don't think I'd have the balls though, and I don't want it to come to that.

I am absolutely desperate and feel helpless. Please tell me WWYD, and if I am being unreasonable and should just sign. Is my DH selfish?

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 12/09/2017 10:29

Cross post. Tell the ill family member what is going on. God knows what else he is doing with their money!!

TheDodgyEnd · 12/09/2017 10:31

*I love him dearly
*
But he doesn't respect you, at all, does he OP?

He doesn't include you, he doesn't care about where YOU want to live, he doesn't respect you, he doesn't care that he's making YOU financially vulnerable let alone himself. You may love him dearly but this man is going to ruin you.

Are you happy to stay because you love him even if it means you will never have his respect and you are more than likely going to lose everything due to his ways?!

I agree with pp's who said a) tell him either he lives within his means or you'll leave him and b) to get out and file for divorce whilst you still have financial options.

Anecdoche · 12/09/2017 10:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AdaColeman · 12/09/2017 10:32

Stop letting your prat of husband bully you into foolish life decisions.

He isn't even able to put a roof over his family's head, so ask yourself why has he got so much power in the relationship?

youhavetobekidding · 12/09/2017 10:32

Don't sign over the flat. Stay strong. Why should DH's views take priority over yours? You sound sensible, him not so much

It's good to live in a smart area if you can afford it, but everyone should live within their means

SleepFreeZone · 12/09/2017 10:33

Are you on the mortgage? Do you even have a say in this if DH decides to give the other family member (brother or uncle I assume) half of the flat?

If you have no say in it either way I think you are going to have to accept he will go along with the family members plan. If you do get a say in it then say NO. Force the same of the flat and move to a cheaper area.

Mumsnut · 12/09/2017 10:34

Here's a scenario:

-this person who now wants half of your flat putting in their name;

  • are they married?
  • if their spouse were to divorce them, half your flat would be deemed marital property, wouldn't it? Then you would come under incredible pressure to sell anyway.

(Happened to a friend of mine)

UnreasonableNotUnreasonable · 12/09/2017 10:34

We don't have any joint bank accounts, as I have never believed in them and put my foot down. It's just the mortgage we have together.

I am pleased to see how many of you think my idea of moving somewhere affordable where we can pay off the debts etc is a wise one.

OP posts:
Treborextrastrong38 · 12/09/2017 10:35

I don't understand why you can't sell the flat and buy somewhere else (in / close to his preferable area) with a smaller mortgage - if you can afford to buy a house near your parents completely mortgage free, then surely you can buy something closer to his preferred area with a small mortgage, he must be able to pay some mortgage without help from the relative?

Why does it have to be huge mortgage in preferred area Vs no mortgage in chav-zone? Surely just reduce the mortgage and get somewhere in between?

Go book a good financial advisor today - they will sit down with both of you and tell you what your options are.

The "you're going to get divorced" advice is neither helpful nor constructive - you love the man and want to make this work (even if more so for the sake of the kids).

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 12/09/2017 10:35

You sound very levelheaded about Gina vial issues. Your husband is insane. You say he has debts already? And he's insisting he can only cycle to work?

I can't see him changing. Can you? You have to decide if you could live with this forever. And how do you think this will pan out? Do you think his spending and debts will get better or worse?

I get the feeling you were kind of rail tossed into all of this. But it's not too late.

Sorry but i would be seeking financial advice. Selling this expensive folly of a flat and start living within your means Flowers

ballestief · 12/09/2017 10:36

You need to be 100% sure that it is not the money of family member 2, because if it is, you are taking vast amounts of their cash to subsidise your lifestyle AND being a massive git about it.

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 12/09/2017 10:36

Gina vial?!? Holy crap autocorrect. Financial

TheDodgyEnd · 12/09/2017 10:36

You've come up with all sorts of solutions and he refuses to budge on anything. It's clear he's never going to listen so all this move and in 5 years we'll see is just going to fall on deaf ears. He is never going to listen to you. Get out while you can, seriously!

HorridHenryrule · 12/09/2017 10:39

You could end up losing everything at this rate because he is that selfish. I wish you and your kids luck for the future because you're going to need it.

Hullygully · 12/09/2017 10:41

Wow, he is a real prince.

It's all about him him him.

Tell him to fuck right off.

Hullygully · 12/09/2017 10:41

And you MUST speak to family member 1 at once and get it all out in the open, no matter what big baby dh says.

Neverenoughspoons · 12/09/2017 10:42

I would get the flat on the market and explain to your husband that you will be renting a property near your parents if necessary once the flat is sold, & investing your half of the equity from the flat. If he can't go along with what is the most sensible option, then you'll need to do what is best for your children on your own. Good luck!

Treborextrastrong38 · 12/09/2017 10:42

Perhaps also point out to your DH the financial process of 'signing over half the flat'. He doesn't seem to have much knowledge of finance so maybe if you highlight that:
(1) the flat will need remortgaging with the new family member's income & expenses being analysed thoroughly
(2) You will need to engage solicitors to change the deeds of the house.
....he might be similarly? You can't just 'sign it over'....presumably your DH realises that?

PlasticPatty · 12/09/2017 10:43

How much would you get for the flat if you sold it?
How much would you need in order to pay back money other relatives have chipped in?
How much would you need in order to pay back any other debt you and your DH have accrued?
What you have left after that is your equity. You and your DH split that when you split up - you will need an additional amount because you will have care of the children.
Get a good solicitor and start extricating yourself from this mess immediately.
Establish a safe and secure home for your children. Don't give in to a 50/50 no maintenance deal - get a good divorce lawyer on your side.
Next time, don't marry a man from a background you don't understand, and don't allow people to gain 'rights' (presumed or actual) over your home.
Good luck.

Treborextrastrong38 · 12/09/2017 10:43

.....he might be similarly put off? bloody keyboard!
Also, if money is coming from family member 2 via family member 1, chances are a remortgage won't even work, so whole plan will fall flat on its face at the first hurdle!

Inertia · 12/09/2017 10:43

You need legal advice from a property solicitor, very quickly.

I would also pre-warn your mortgage company about what's going on, as you are in danger of your husband signing over your property without your agreement.

Frankly, if I was married to a man who refused to compromise and insisted on controlling me to the extent you describe, I'd get divorced and force the sale of the flat anyway, and then move to be nearer my family.

RachelP247 · 12/09/2017 10:44

Whoever said the family member has a "beneficial interest" in the property just because they have been paying towards the mortgage - they don't if there is nothing in writing with either land registry or the mortgage company .... and no, you can't sign over half a property 'just like that' - the property needs to be re-mortgaged (I am personally going through this because I married my DH whilst his ex was still on the fcking deeds to the house and even I, MYSELF, have NO beneficial interest in the house legally even though I live there with our children)... property law is twisted and not something us lay people can understand easily - and it IS very stressful.

You won't be able to re-mortgage without jumping through hoops with the mortgage company anyway who will rake over your finances for affordability testing etc. Your idea of moving into a house without a mortgage is by far the BEST solution to all of this.

My advice would be to see an IFA asap and don't be bullied by this relative who sounds like a con artist - he can't force you to sign over half the property, it just doesn't work like that - but get some independent/legal advice and start looking at houses near your parents...

30 minutes travel to work - what a fcking luxury. DH is a dick.

TheRadiantAerynSun · 12/09/2017 10:44

And this is why you should NEVER allow yourself to become financially dependant on ANYONE unless you have absolutely no choice. Even with the best of intentions if something goes wrong you are fucked.

You need to sell the flat and move somewhere you can afford (and somewhere more practical for your family.)

All other options are just rearranging the furniture on the Titanic.

UnreasonableNotUnreasonable · 12/09/2017 10:45

We could afford the mortgage when I was working full time before DC came on the scene and would need childcare etc. We had saved a large deposit too which really helped us, and so we were able to get our joint mortgage. No one had to act as a guarantor, it is at the moment just in the names of DH and I.

The person who wants half of it is single, but I've always said to my DH what would happen if he married or died, or what will happen when the ill family member dies? We'd be up a creek without a paddle. DH refuses to think about it.

All of this is affecting my parents too, as I just randomly burst into tears last week when they visited and were obviously concerned. I blurted out everything, and said I'd kept it all bottled up and I wanted to tell them, but didn't want to put it on their shoulders. There is no way that they could assist at all financially, and I wouldn't expect it, as up until I had my DC I'd always been completely financially independent.

They've written to my DC to express their concerns, and he just told them he refuses to move. My parents are infuriated and feel awful that they can't help me. My Dad even said that if they were able to take out a loan and give my DH the money, he would only get himself into debt again in a few months time, and so there's no way they'll do this for him.

OP posts:
RachelP247 · 12/09/2017 10:47

Inertia her DH CAN'T sign over half the property without her agreement if she is on the deeds..... I'm going through this right now trying to get my husband's ex off the deeds to our home.... UK property law is rigid as fuck. It doesn't work like that.

People can pay nothing towards the mortgage for 10 years but because their name is on the deeds they still have beneficial interest in the property and land registry won't do fuck all to get them removed from the deeds without the say so of mortgage company and conveyancing solicitor....

It is literally NOT about what you have or have not contributed to the mortgage - it's ALL about what Land Registry have on file....

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