To not want to sign over half of my flat

[UnreasonableNotUnreasonable]

I've name changed as I feel this could be very outing.

It's a case of AIBU/WWYD.

DH and I have a large mortgage on a flat, that now with 2 little DC, has become very impractical in terms of access to and from it, and to the shared garden. We are on the top floor and there is no lift. Access to the garden is via a metal, spiral staircase, and the garden is not fenced off, and has an access road running along at the bottom of it, as well as another to one side of the garden. There are therefore moving vehicles nearby, and any members of the public or other residents can just enter the garden. We're also not allowed to leave Prams/pushchairs in the communal areas, which makes things extremely awkward, nor are we even allowed any pets (we have a share in freehold, and the management company do not allow pets).

I didn't want to take on such a large mortgage, but DH is a complete snob who will only live in gentrified areas, and will never commute any further than 30 minutes each way for work, which is in the centre of the city. We had to hurry and get a mortgage after 2 years of failing to get on the property ladder, as our deposit was allowing us to get less and less for our money, so I reluctantly agreed to a large mortgage.

DH is from a different culture to me, and he and his family always said not to worry about the mortgage when we start having children, as for them, helping financially and having children are very important. They are a lot more well off than my family, and I've always been financially independent, but 2 of them said they'd pay half of the mortgage for as many years as I wanted to be a SAHM. They assured us there were no ulterior motives or expectations. I was delighted and grateful, but also quite apprehensive as I'm not used to this set up.

Unfortunately, the person who had been helping financially every month, and who we trusted completely, became ill and unable to help. Family member 2 seamlessly stepped in, and the payments continued. We were extremely grateful, but I have never trusted this person, and my DH also doesn't trust him to some extent. I do not want to say why on here (nothing criminal or untoward though!).

Family member 2 has been paying half of our monthly payments for 2 and a half years. He has now said that he wants to own half of our flat, and this will enable him and my DH to release finance from it in order to buy a cheaper property to rent out. He then said that if not enough money could be released, then the money that could be released could be used to pay into our mortgage to reduce our monthly payments, and then he won't have to give us money every month, or can give us a lot less. To make matters worse, we believe that the money he gives us and pretends it's his money, is actually not his, but money from the person who is now too ill to manage their own finances, as this person signed over responsibilities of his finances to him. If so, then he will own half of our flat without having paid a penny of his own money into it! When we do eventually move from here, he'll take half of all of the money and my DH and I won't be able to afford anything.

He has told us that if we don't agree to sign over half of our flat, he'll stop paying half of the mortgage every month! We would lose our home. I'm a SAHM and a part time student who would have to give up studying for her Degree and very quickly try and get a job. I'd have to pay an extortionate rate for nursery for both DC, and would have hardly any money to put towards the mortgage anyway, and would lose our flat. I don't have any family nearby who can offer free childcare.

My DH thinks we should just agree to this scheme, and we keep arguing about it every day. I've suffered with stress and depression before, and all the crying, worry and arguing is really affecting me. I feel a deep anguish, as there is a very easy way out of this situation, as detailed below:

With the equity we have on our flat, we could sell it and just about afford to buy a small house with a garden - outright. I would do this tomorrow, by DH absolutely, point blank refuses as the house would be in a town that borders my parents' town. He doesn't have a problem with them, but he HATES their area and all of those that surround it. In his words, 'they're full of chavs and people who aren't decent, and there are no good shops and facilities, and those areas have nothing going for them.' I disagree with his terminology and the accuracy of what he's saying. He can get to work within 35 minutes from there, property prices are rising very fast, there is a community atmosphere, the shops are fine for day to day and there are many shops and facilities within 15 minutes drive in other towns. Most importantly for me, I could be near to my family and we could support each other, and we could afford the type of family home that we need now, without a mortgage!

DH is in lots of debt, as he always lives beyond his means and cannot borrow any more money to help us buy elsewhere. He works really hard and takes extra hours at work, but if we lived mortgage free near my parents, he wouldn't need to do the extra work and could pay his debts. I've put this to him, but he just calls the areas shitholes and refuses. I think he's really childish and extremely selfish.

DH and I are going around in circles, and the family member has told us that we have 6 months maximum to get half of our flat signed over to him and sort out the release of funds. My family are so worried and annoyed that my DH won't listen to me and do what they and I think is the logical, common sense option.

I feel trapped and like I'm going to have no choice but to sign over half of our flat. My DH and I are usually happy, but this is really affecting us, to the point where I've even considered filing for divorce so that I don't have to be forced into doing something I disagree with. I don't think I'd have the balls though, and I don't want it to come to that.

I am absolutely desperate and feel helpless. Please tell me WWYD, and if I am being unreasonable and should just sign. Is my DH selfish?

It sounds to me like you have a very sensible plan. Near to your parents (but not on the same road), a house rather than a flat. It sounds like his family are not trustworthy, they've already let you down & you could end up in a huge mess. I think you need to fight this one. Perhaps sell it to your DH as buying a house & moving area now, then in 5 years when you are working again you will review which area you can afford to live in.

Firstly- you are morally culpable if you have been accepting money that you know belongs to an ill relative of your husband. This vulnerable person is being financially abused, and you have been benefiting from it. Shame on you, OP. You only have an issue now because you're being asked to part with an asset- what about the ill person?

You're both living beyond your means, OP. You can't afford to be a SAHM and student right now.

It was crazy to accept mortgage repayments from a relative in the first place. Stop accepting this immediately.

Seek proper financial advice, including refinancing options. Your DH might hear the truth better from a 3rd party.

Thank you again to further posters who have given such great advice.

I would love to try and find out where/who exactly the money is coming from, but DH just tells me not to worry about it, and the important thing is that we are receiving money, not who it's really coming from. I disagree.

I have worried for a very long time about my DH's attitude to money, but love him dearly and have tried not to think about it, now I can't stop thinking of it.

Interest only mortgage is something I could look into, thanks.

I couldn't live with a man like that. Lots of debt, lives above his means, happy for relatives to pay his mortgage, an absolute snob... No. I'd be off.

You and your DH need to get your own finances under control as a matter of urgency, before your lives spiral into chaos.

Stop living beyond your means, start being responsible for your own lives.

Don't sign over your property, don't buy more property, see a mortgage advisor about tweeking your payments to make them managable.

Get a job, start being realistic.

Unfortunately your only choice is to sell flat move elsewhere and live within means with or without DH.
You can't continue letting fm2 and your DH control you thru money.

If you DH wants to continue to be a in debt snob let him be a divorced one
You need to put a stop to accepting anymore mortgage payments immediately and therefore force the issue of selling up

SilverBirchTree - I would never do anything of the sort. That relative had made a firm promise to give us that money every month. I adore that person, and I would never do anything disrespectful to them.

The bottom line is that you shouldn't be afriad of divorce, because with a husband like this, you will eventually get to that point anyway.

He is a fucking prick. And clearly has been for years, and won't listen to a word you say or compromise.

Your entire life is going to be like this.

So maybe the question for you is whether you leave him now, and get some money out of this shitstorm, or you wait until you've lost most of what assets you have to his dodgy family, are on much worse terms with them all as a result, and then divorce anyway.

Tell him that if this is the way he is going to be and he's basically going to trash the marriage through refusing to work as a team with you, then you have no choice but to prioritise the long-term security of your children and the only way to do that seems to be to file for divorce in order to get control of your 'half' (actually much more considering the children) of the finances.

Believe me, this is probably the more painless route to the same outcome in five years' time.

Your DH is a tosser and you have been monumentally stupid. What on earth possessed you to agree to any of this in the first place? Woman up and lay down the law - and if it comes to divorce then that is better than being bullied into making terrible decisions for the rest of your life.

And yy to Fizzy above

As everyone else has said, do not sign over half of your flat. It's incredibly gracious of family members to help you, but that was no part of the original deal and there is no advantage to you in the long run as you'll be stuck there forever.

You're right the wisest decision is to sell and move somewhere you can afford to by outright. To be mortgage free would be an incredible privilege that most people can only dream of. My husband and I are working to save up some money to move in a few more years and would like to be mortgage free. If you have the chance to do that now, do it. Even if it's not necessarily close to your family, but in a less expensive area with a reasonable commuting distance. Anything less than an hour is great. I currently commute 3 hours (each way) 2-3 days a week. That's hell. But I would die to only commute an hour. Your dh is being unreasonable to not consider a little bit more commuting so that you can get yourselves out of this tricky situation.

I agree with Fizzy. You'll end up divorcing this guy anyway as you're too incompatible (luckily for you - if you were like him you'd end up bankrupt.)

Actually, both of those family members could have a beneficial interest in your flat anyway, as they've been paying towards the mortgage for so long. Look it up.

You've got yourself into a right mess.

You won't be able to just sign over half the house, as there's a mortgage on the property. It would need to be re-mortgaged with the other person on the mortgage and it sounds like your husband won't be able to get a mortgage.

You will need to get a job, or your husband will have to come to his senses and buy a house in a cheaper area, but I suspect he will dig his heels in. Then you will need to decide whether to stay with him or leave him. If you stay, you (both) will probably lose the flat and have to move anyway.

Thank you to all of you who have suggested living near my parents for 5 years or so to get ourselves sorted.

I have put it to my DH that I could be back to work within 4 years, and and could be full time work in my career, as my wonderful parents would willingly assist with collecting/dropping off DC to school by that point, and ad hoc childcare - but that can only happen if we live near to them. He could sort out his debts, and we could apply for a joint mortgage and move elsewhere.

He still refuses to entertain the idea. It's great to see that you're thinking along the same lines, as I begun to think I was losing my mind and expecting terrible things of my DH.

I would also like to get independent/3rd part advice on everything.

You need to stand up for yourself. Decisions should be made 50-50 but it sounds like he makes the decisions and that's that. Are bank accounts joint? If so, go in the bank and get statements etc so you know where you stand.

To make matters worse, we believe that the money he gives us and pretends it's his money, is actually not his, but money from the person who is now too ill to manage their own finances, as this person signed over responsibilities of his finances to him

Your own words OP. Have you, or have you not been accepting money which you suspect has been wrongfully taken from an ill person who is not in control of their own finances?

It seems your DH isn't putting you or the children first. It's all about him and what he wants.
Don't waste your life - it won't get better and he won't change.
Speaking from experience.

If you do what your DH suggests you will have no security or equity and things may be worse than you think, is it possible he has a hidden agenda such as debts you don't know about or a gambling habit? Why should you give away your half of the equity.

If you were to split up the flat would be sold and the equity shared between you, he would not have a choice.

The logical solution is to sell up, live near your parents, go back to work if your parents will,assist with childcare and work towards a house in an area of his choice.

FizzyGreenWater - I just keep on thinking of the DC, and that's what makes me consider the things that you have said.

mindutopia - It infuriates me when he talks of only commuting up to 30 mins each way. I used to have really awkward and long, not to mention expensive journeys to my work places - up to 2 hours each way. He's always had the 30 mins rule for himself, and said I should apply it to myself too, but it never worked out for me, like it doesn't for many people. What makes it worse now, is that he has ridden a bike to work for a year, and now says that he will never move anywhere that is more than a 40 minute bike ride away, and that he wants to be able to cycle to and from work everyday, so he has changed the parameters again!

Your husband has some pretty lofty ideas about where he wants to live and what he'll accept for a man in debt who can't even afford to pay his own mortgage.

This is actually nuts. I don't think you two have any future tbh. You're so different and he won't listen to you. Why should his opinion automatically carry more weight than yours btw? Is he a bit of a mysogynist? Why is the default mode here he is laying the law down and you're expected to agree, but when you try lay the law down it's dismissed instantly? Are you actually happy like this?

You were nuts to agree with a mortgage that meant accepting money from other people and naive to think there would be no strings attached. I'm white British and my partner is British Indian and he often says how Asian families like his are quite free with their money and think nothing of helping each other out and sharing their income, which to me as more of an individualist is hard to get my head around. But as someone outside the family I'd personally never get involved in the kind of arrangement you've got going on, too risky and too much scope for power dynamics and strings and all sorts. Not to mention I have my pride and take care of myself.

I'm a bit scared for you OP and what will happen to you if you refuse to sign the flat over. Will he try pressure you somehow? Or be angry you're being disobedient (his attitude and the way he treats you and your desires does suggest he thinks you're beneath him). I wouldn't rule out that they might forge your signature.

Get out of this disaster zone now.

You don't need me to chime in with what you ought or must do, but what the hell was it you saw in Lord" I want to live beyond my means" in the first place?.

Surely not his fiscal knowledge??

Do not sign over half your flat - that would be stupid.

but also you and your dh need to start living within your means and grow up.

Unlike Theresa May you don't have a magic money tree. You used to have - family member 1 encouraged you to live beyond your means and continue as dependents long into adulthood, infantilising you both. This was not a kindness. Now that family member 1 can no longer help, you and dh are hoping for a new magic money tree instead of being resourceful.

Everyone in the world (well maybe only 99.999% of people - there may be a few billionaire exceptions) would like to have a nicer lifestyle than the one they can afford. You are no different. Everyone has a simple choice - (a) strive to increase your income or (b) adapt your lifestyle to the income you have.

(a) never works for long because no matter how much you increase your income your horizons will expand so that something just a little bit nicer becomes desirable and you are basically back where you started. So unless you are in poverty so extreme that your health is at risk from malnutrition, fuel poverty or homelessness, (b) is a better path.

Your oh seems to be more infantilised than you do op. He probably thinks that losing half the flat and staying in the dependency of childhood for another decade is desirable. Yes, to answer your question in the op, your dh is just being selfish and childish.

Your plan to sell and buy cheaper elsewhere is a sensible one except how sure are you that you know the full extent of your DH's debts? You may find when trying to sort out this mess that you can't borrow what you thought if his debts are large.

It's a pity that your husband's ideas of what is good enough for him don't tally with his earning potential.
This is a crazy situation. I honestly think you need to threaten divorce and mean it. Your plan sounds perfectly sensible but he'd ruin the lot of you over a postcode.

SilverBirchTree - That person agreed to giving us the money for as long as we needed it. He has spoken to us about the payments since being ill, and has asked us if we're still receiving payments from the other family member, as he had signed his finances over to him. He had told the family member that they must still pay us every month out of the ill person's money.

Family member 2 though, dresses it up as though it is his own money. It is he I have an issue with, as he is trying to gain from us. I think I will have to try and talk to the ill family member about what is happening, as he would hate to learn of that happening, if indeed it is. I don't want to upset the ill person or worry them though, which is why I haven't before.

Firstly, it takes the two of you to sign any changes. So don't sign.

If my dh tried to force me, I'd divorce for this. Not that he would. And we have never been in a position to expect family to pay mortgage for us. The family member concerned would have been much better to have gifted you a set sum as they're paying interest.

Secondly I'm surprised you were able to get a mortgage you couldn't afford. Is the ill family member acting as you a guarantor? Please check for if they are, they will be legally obliged to pay.

That said, I'd get the property on the market. Being beholden to others is no way to live. You will be able to get another house within your means and think again in future. The next property crash is estimated to be coming either post Brexit or anytime post 2022 so you won't have that long to wait.