To think if a boy hits my daughter then yes it is different to if a girl does

[ouchthathurtsabit]

Preparing to be flamed as this is a controversial issue.

I'm a mum of a girl and 2 boys. My daughter came home with a red mark on her face saying that a boy- known for hurting others- had punched her in the face because she had gone in front of him in the queue. The boy was spoken to and it was dealt with. The children are 8 and in year 3.

So I spoke to the teacher and said I was glad it was dealt with and that I was sure my daughter would be fine but it would probably be helpful for this boy to know that it's unacceptable to hurt or hit anyone but that hitting a girl in the face is really not acceptable.

The teacher then had a massive rant at me saying that there is absolutely no difference and that's a very dangerous thing to be teaching children and it would not be an appropriate thing to say in school.

Whist I do understand what she was tryouts g to say, I do try and explain to my boys that In our society, no matter what age you are, if you hit a female then it is completely unacceptable and that no matter what a girl does or says to you then if you respond with physical violence then it's not acceptable. Males are generally bigger and stronger. Am I completely wrong in thinking at 8 years old this could be mentioned? Because I don't know! I know if one of my boys hit a girl in the face I would be a tiny bit more mortified than if it was a girl

Only one of my kids ever had a problem with other kids hitting them at school, that was my DD and she was being hit by a group of girls who bullied her. I don't think it was any better or worse than if it was boys.

I know a woman who killed her husband, she has a violent temper and he did nothing to provoke her.

I know a man who gave his wife a black eye.

My DIL punched my son in the face when he had the baby in one arm and the toddler in the other.

Let's teach everyone not to hit, not to be violent, I don't think some sort of scale of what is acceptable is workable. Zero tolerance for violence.

The whole not hitting someone smaller or weaker is also problematic. I have one son who is 6'3" tall, he has often been a target as other men seem to think it makes them "big" if they start a fight with someone bigger than them and he won't fight back as he is big and strong and knows there is a danger he would do them serious damage. He is in a no win situation.

Except that's not exactly what they are satiny unless you want to deliberately massively oversimplify the argument to make it sound like nothing more than a sound bite.

'Saying' damn autocorrect!

some people seem to be saying men are stronger and more prone to physical violence. that is overgeneralizing imo. of dv, yes more men than women. but still some women are perpetrators. i have always been quick tempered, oh not do. if i had been prone to slap him, how should he have responded?? streetwise seems to have good pov.

It seems like some people only want equality in some circumstances.

Some people fail to understand the true form of equality.

in that it is primarily women and children who are the victims. It is disingenuous and downright dangerous to suggest otherwise.

No body has said otherwise

But BoneyBack, when people keep popping up giving examples of when women hit men or male pattern violence is used against other men it is a failure to understand the structure of society that subjugates females and it minimises the problem.
It is very similar to racism debates. As soon as people of colour begin to speak out about structural exclusion and power imbalances, somebody inevitably pops up with "oh not ALL white people" and "one time I got called a white bitch" or "I didn't get a job once because of positive discrimination"

It is a total red herring, a complete failure to address the problem and is an attempt to silence the true debate.

Bony

Sorry but 😂😂😂 YOU did just that by suggesting dv had 60/40 split....please own your shit.

slash - I feel as if this is groundhog day

As has been repeatedly said, children are children. We do not apply the same rules as if they were adults.

However, in your "scenario", I would tell all my children not to fight obviously. But in general, would also be telling the boys that hurting girls is particularly not on - as a principle.

Please don't come back with, "Well what if the girl was 10 and the boy 5?" or "What if the boy had his leg in a cast?" or something like that, because extenuating circumstances with children are obvious. I am talking about a moral compass that I am giving my son for life. I don't mind my daughter also hearing the clear message that she should never tolerate violence at the hands if men either. No excuses - once is too many times.

There are two ways of dealing with these sorts of incidents. We can just take a simplified 'they are just kids and all hitting is wrong' approach.

Or we can acknowledge our children are learning to become adults and will become part of society where unearned privilege and power imbalances make up its fabric. We can challenge this from an early age through our responses and by modelling behaviours.

Yes. I am a feminist and have a boy and a girl. My son is lovely, gentle, thoughful, responsible etc but somehow has this idea that white male privilege does not exist......how I do not fucking know I can only assume that the socialization from societal norms and his peers have trumped the fact he's been raised by a feminist mum. Even so I have instilled in him some issues that are non negotiable. He should respect that females are equal but different; he should always get positive consent each time he has sex (he almost barfed on that one), he should treat girlfriends with respect, honesty and integrity, he does not need to control, belittle, diminish or use his strength on anyone but particularly women. Of course all those things are reversible and something he shoukd expect to receive himself.

The original post was about 8 year old children, not men and women.
It is not worse if an 8 year old boy hits a girl than if he hits a boy. Both would be equally bad.

By the reasoning of some posters on this issue, a girl child hitting a boy would be nothing to be that concerned about?
No 8 year old should hit another 8 year old regardless of their gender. To say you would be less concerned if they were both boys is terrible.

I am talking about a moral compass that I am giving my son for life. I don't mind my daughter also hearing the clear message that she should never tolerate violence at the hands if men either. No excuses - once is too many times.

As previous posters have said numerous times like groundhog day no violence is ok against anyone. I really don't get why some fail to see it. There isn't a hirachy of it's ok to hit a but not b. All is wrong.

While I'm against violence, I hate the whole 'boys shouldn't hit girls' way of thinking, regardless of age.
While it's true that boys can be bigger (and sometimes stronger) than girls, I think in certain circumstances, men/boys should not be frowned on for hitting women/girls.

Self defense for example.

But this is mumsnet so I'm fully expecting to get slated for my comment 😂

@Gotta, please extract the quote where anyone has said that a girl child hitting a boy would be nothing to be concerned about? The issue has always been the relative weight and impact that some of us assign to matters of violence, in a school setting, with reference to the gender of the perpetrator and the victim. To simply ignore the fact that boys turn into men and that male violence against women is far more frequent and devastating in its effects is unacceptable in my view.

Male violence against women can be prevented by telling boys not to hit people.

Piglet - we'll just have to agree to disagree.
To me it's quite evident that a man punching another similar man is not as bad as that man punching a child, person in a wheelchair, woman, elderly person etc. This is so obvious that I don't really know what else to say.

LongWavyHair

Except that's not exactly working is it?? Boys are growing up to hit other men and women......so perhaps there might be other issues at play here??

The vast majority of males grow up to be respectful human beings. As do women but then you get the violent ones amongst them as well. So we should be looking at the "other issues at play" For both sexes, not just males.

So do males dominant other males in social settings in precisely the same way they can and do dominate females in domestic settings where much violence against females happens? Is the impact and prevalence of male on male violence the same as the impact of male on female violence? Do you seriously think that there is nothing about the male / female dynamic that needs to be addressed within this scenario whilst boys are starting to grow and mature?

Are we really suggesting that highlighting the differences between the sexes is not necessary / not a good thing / terrible?

Wow give me back the 50s if that's the case! I seriously question whether some of you live in the real world.

I do live in the real world. My son has never lifted a finger towards a boy or a girl because he knows violence is wrong full stop. Do you seriously think I am raising a thug against women because I don't specifically tell him not to hit girls?

We know that males are generally more aggressive than females...it's a given. What we need to do is to actually address this. Now some will argue it's all about biology....testosterone to be exact and that it's an evolutionary behaviour that many other male animals exhibit. While that is true to certain extent there has to be something other at play. Some form of socialization that is occuring that enables this behaviour? Toxic masculinity is a very real issue in society and one that some do not want to address. I've met lots of lovely men to be sure do by god I've also met some right macho dickheads.....they like to assemble in town centres of a weekend........

No, not at all, but this is not the scenario we are discussing is it? The scenario we are discussing is where a boy has hit a girl and how this should be addressed. To those of you who are blind the sex and say it does not matter, is completely shocking given what we know about male / female dynamics and violence.

My sons aren't violent, they were brought up that way. Zero tolerance, nice and clear you don't hit people, once you start fudging that with a hierachy the lines get blurred. Women are people, girls are people, so don't hit people covers it.

I wish my DILs mother had taught her not to hit people.