To think if a boy hits my daughter then yes it is different to if a girl does

[ouchthathurtsabit]

Preparing to be flamed as this is a controversial issue.

I'm a mum of a girl and 2 boys. My daughter came home with a red mark on her face saying that a boy- known for hurting others- had punched her in the face because she had gone in front of him in the queue. The boy was spoken to and it was dealt with. The children are 8 and in year 3.

So I spoke to the teacher and said I was glad it was dealt with and that I was sure my daughter would be fine but it would probably be helpful for this boy to know that it's unacceptable to hurt or hit anyone but that hitting a girl in the face is really not acceptable.

The teacher then had a massive rant at me saying that there is absolutely no difference and that's a very dangerous thing to be teaching children and it would not be an appropriate thing to say in school.

Whist I do understand what she was tryouts g to say, I do try and explain to my boys that In our society, no matter what age you are, if you hit a female then it is completely unacceptable and that no matter what a girl does or says to you then if you respond with physical violence then it's not acceptable. Males are generally bigger and stronger. Am I completely wrong in thinking at 8 years old this could be mentioned? Because I don't know! I know if one of my boys hit a girl in the face I would be a tiny bit more mortified than if it was a girl

Or put it this way...I have never hit anyone in my life, but If I did ever happen to punch another woman and break her nose, I would feel terrible. But I would feel even more disgusted with myself if I broke the nose of a child.

Yep agree...or an older weaker person

So what can we do about male violence then (as we are going around in circles).

You see, it is MALE violence which is the problem the world over so what should we do about that FACT?

Walkingdead11

You see you want this to be entirely about male violence.

The truth is that when girls hit boys they don't get told off, it doesn't get recorded. Why? because of attitudes such as yours.

Until people accept that all violence is bad it isn't going to go away.

That's his view and fairly typical common-sense, I would say.

It's not common sense. It is basically saying you just don't hit women because everyone just knows you don't hit women. It is a generational, old-fashioned attitude which is based on old-fashioned views about little defenceless ladies, rather than facts and fairness and equal human rights. It is not an attitude arising from respect for women as equal human beings. It is an attitude of condescending protective male superiority, dressed up as respect for women. (Disclaimer: I am not saying your husband doesn't respect women, I'm saying that this is generally what this kind of attitude is based on).

An attitude based on equality would be to judge each person's strength or vulnerability on their own actual level of strength or vulnerability, not base it on what you think most women are like or most men are like.

It's not a natural instinct. It's social conditioning. And saying that anybody who actually thinks about the morality of these matters instead of just acting on social conditioning is insane - well, that is extremely offensive (and inappropriate in terms of references to mental health).

Again: hitting anyone is totally wrong (except in self-defense). Additionally, the seriousness of the assault may be increased if the strength of the assailant (whatever their sex) outweighs that of the victim (whatever their sex). But not necessarily - a punch in the face of any given force is likely to inflict the same damage, irrespective of the physical body strength of the victim.

I and others do think that all violence is bad but until we address the underlying issues behind that violence it will never stop. The facts are that it is males who commit the most violent crimes, both against women and other men. That's why we are having this discussion. Surely we need to address this if we are to come up with a solution.

Walkingdead11

Yet you are only prepared to discuss male violence, as female violence isn't as bad.

There is no way to get to the "underlying issues behind that violence" if you are not prepared to discuss all violence by all perpetrators and admit that a male victim is just as much a victim of violence no matter the sex of the perpetrator.

I dont think walking has said that men aren't victims of violence

Just that the overwelming amount of violence is committed by men

@Walkingdead11

It suits your narrative to ignore domestic violence against males doesnt it? I expect there's a shit load more going on but nobody is going to take any notice of that with some idiotic fractions of society are asserting that violence against men isn't as serious as violence against women. I wonder if a male dv survivor would agree with that.

All domestic violence is serious. Men are conditioned to just take it and that men who are being abused are pathetic because women are the weaker sex. So what man is going to report it knowing how he will be judged.

Going by your argument, that women suffer worse dv so who cares if men suffer dv too, children in Africa are in poverty so we should ignore child poverty in this country because they're not suffering as much.

Its not a game of suffering top trumps.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1

That's exactly what I'm saying. But some, refuse to acknowledge reality and that is deeply frustrating. We live in a world where the vast majority of violence is committed by males.......that is why it needs addressing not by derailing arguments that want to focus on female violence.

In the case of the OP, what the teacher did was wrong in my opinion because she failed to address the impact of male violence to the daily lives of those affected. We have argued and argued about equality but we don't have it do we?? In the vast majority of cases a man hitting a woman will have more of a damaging consequence than the other way round. Does that mean that female on male violence is acceptable........nope, of course not. But until we address the issue of male violence in all its variants I don't see how we can change.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1

yet the statements of female violence noit being as bad would indicate that she believes that male victims don't rate as highly as female victims.

And for what its worth, the getting to the bottom of the issues of violence is a nonsense as different violence will have different causal effects.

Talking about male violence as if it
1/ is the only violence
and
2/ has a single cause

is pointless

Walkingdead11

How can you derail a thread by talking about female violence when it is in the title of the thread?

boney

Men are victims of male violence in the main

So again walking was not saying that she feels that male victims dont rate as highly as female ones

Eolian - well that's your view, but it's no more or less valid than his. If that's how he feels, who is anyone else to tell him it's social conditioning rather than natural instinct? The truth is, it's probably a combination of both. If you were a man you might well feel the same way.

I would stop myself lashing out at a child or elderly person, simply because there is an imbalance and it would feel particularly distasteful. That is not patronising to the elderly or to children. Nor do I actually care whether this is due social conditioning or instinct because it's how I feel.

"You are here:
Domestic violence and gender
Refuge recognises that both women and men can be victims of domestic violence – both in heterosexual and gay relationships. We believe that everyone has the right to live in safety – regardless of their gender.

Help for women

Help for men

Woman in a refugeDoes domestic violence affect women and men equally?

Research shows that domestic violence is a deeply gendered issue that disproportionately affects women. For example:

Metropolitan Police statistics show that male violence against women made up 85% of reported domestic violence incidents
A 2009 study based on police reports, which accounted for the dynamics of domestic violence, found that only 5% of domestic violence incidents were perpetrated by women in heterosexual relationships
Domestic violence is patterned, repeated behaviour intended to assert power and control over the victim. Of those who experience 4 or more incidents of domestic violence, 89% are women
Four times as many women as men are killed by a current or former partner. Two women a week are killed as a result of domestic violence in England and Wales

Do women and men experience domestic violence differently?

Research shows that the violence experienced by women is different in nature, severity and consequence from the violence experience by men.

The intensity and severity of violence used by men is more extreme and more likely to include physical violence, threats and harassment. Female victims of domestic violence experience more serious psychological consequences than male victims and are much more likely to feel afraid of their partners. Women are 4 times as likely to experience potentially lethal violence and five times as likely to report that they feared for their lives."
Some facts for you to peruse.......

Male violence is probably caused by parents telling their sons its ok to use violence to deal with their emotions. Ie, hitting back. In other words raising boys in a stereotypical manner that tells boys that girls are weak and that their fists can deal with situations with other boys.

Anyone who does this is raising emotionally stunted young men. Until more parents realise this then male violence will always be a problem because boys are not being raised to be gentle and emotionally intelligent towards other boys and girls are being raised to believe they're weak.

I don't know why its so hard to understand the impact that gender sterotyping has on this kind of thing.

Men are victims of male violence in the main

I haven't seen anyone on thread dispute this.

So again walking was not saying that she feels that male victims dont rate as highly as female ones

Walking has stated that female violence isn't as bad as male violence. she has said that men don't get hit as hard, ergo that they don't suffer as much, that they as victims they are lesser in some way than female victims.

Two women a week are killed as a result of domestic violence in England and Wales

they can't even get the quote right.

boney

Men commit the most violent crime

They commit it mainly against other men

Therefore they rate as highly as female victims of male violence

I dont like to ergo..happy to read through the thread and find where walking stated that men are lesser victims

I will do that in a bit if thats ok...have something a bit nasty to do in a minute

The facts will not disuage some it seems......why am I not surprised 🤔

Still, it's definitely women who are the problem.............I'd mention the patriarchy but I fear some of your heads might implode.

Walkingdead11

Your "facts" are from one area of the country, the national figures are slightly different.

You haven't linked to where your "facts" are from, which study is it, what is the bias etc.

The writer has mis-quoted the "facts" about how many women die per week.

and no-one has said that women are the problem, but then everyone seems to be mis representing what others have posted

Rufustherenegadereindeer1

Men commit the most violent crime

They commit it mainly against other men

Has anyone actually disputed this? I haven't

Where would you like me to get the facts from, Refuge (the above facts)? Women's Aid? National crime statistics? Dispute them if you like, feel free.

20 years ago my son aged 9 got punished at school for hitting a girl. she had kicked him hard first and he had a big bruise. i am glad that schools now realise that some girls are physically violent too.

If you are going to quote facts, the least you should do is quote sources. However if you are just going to post something and claim that its a "fact" then carry on.

Yes, I know that this isn't academia etc..

But just form this thread

no-one has said that males don't commit more violent acts
no-one has said that female on male domestic violence is at the same levels.
no-one has said that there isn't an issue with male violence.
no-one has said that any one but males are responsible for committing acts of male violence.

What people have said is that it is just as wrong for a girl to hit a boy as it is for a boy to hit a girl.

Others have said that it is as wrong for a woman to hit a man as it is a man to hit a woman.

what posters have said is that all violence is wrong.

BoneyBackJefferson

Well some have done those things but that is by the by. What you et al are not getting is that there is a wider social context to this violence and that is why the teacher was in my opinion wrong, in that she didn't address those wider issues.

I will teach my son about those wider issues because I feel it is important to do so.....so we can start to address the propensity of males to violence. Take issue with that all you like, but until we live in a world where it's bloody downright dangerous to be a woman I will continue to place my emphasis on the cause of that reality.......men!