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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be furious about gender neutral bathrooms in work?

134 replies

Kez437 · 07/09/2017 15:57

At the start I'd like to make very clear that I am pro transgender and those who do not prescribe to a particular gender. However as context, we have 2 office sites, I am in site 2. Across the company and in particular on my site there are many more males than females (something the company is desperately trying to solve). There is not a great person to bathroom ratio but currently we have 2 females and 4 males so the men have double we have. As of yesterday, with no prior notice gender neutral signs have been put up on the doors of all the bathrooms. When this was queried with out office manager we were told that there were not enough bathrooms for the men and as there are more of them they are always having to wait. To my knowledge and I'm fairly certain we have no transgender of non-assingning people in our company or on this site and the reason given has nothing to do with this. As of today I have learnt that site 1, which is our head office does not have gender neutral bathrooms and that next week when a client visits us the gender neutral signs are being taken down! I am, quite frankly, furious. It seems to me that this is a poor effort of 'oh there are more of them, they need to use your bathroom but we can't just say that so we'll make them gender neutral'. Not a single woman on site has used the previous male bathrooms so effectively they have gotten their way. Gender neutral is being totally scapegoated and not used in its proper context. If they were so concerned about gender neutrality surely all the bathrooms, inlcuding those in the main office would be gender neutral and they wouldn't be taking the signs down for a client visiting? Or they could have male, female and gender neutral (personally I thing this is the best way forward which caters for all, those who assign to a gender and those who do not). I am properly fuming about this, am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:

FenceSitter01 · 07/09/2017 19:19

My local hospital has gender neutral toilets - in maternity - so you try finding a safe place for women to get DV info etc.

VestalVirgin · 07/09/2017 19:37

Is a gender neutral toilet different from a unisex toilet? (genuine question)

"gender neutral" just is the wrong word. All toilets ought to be "gender neutral", because they should be segregated by sex. Silly gender identity nonsense should have nothing to do with it, and gender as a social construct is only involved insofar as most toilet signs have a woman in a skirt, which is nonsensical as most women don't wear skirts nowadays.

That's why I write unisex toilets, as that's what it is when one forces both sexes to use the same toilet.

People probably mean the same by it, though.

My local hospital has gender neutral toilets - in maternity - so you try finding a safe place for women to get DV info etc.

WTF, no women's toilets on a maternity ward? Do women get any privacy there at all, or are the rooms "gender neutral" too?

Urubu · 07/09/2017 20:03

YANBU
Team up with the other women in your office and go in the former "men's" room, start applying applying make up / brushing teeth, chatting while washing hands etc making mens self conscious about using urinals.
They should soon complain...
If it doesn't work, put an open bin there and put your used sanpro in, I don't think the men will like that either.

bridgetreilly · 07/09/2017 20:17

Just grow up and get over it.

lazyarse123 · 07/09/2017 20:19

Count yourself lucky where I work we have 19 staff working in shifts and only 1 toilet. It's delightful and not much fun if you're desperate.

Italiangreyhound · 07/09/2017 20:28

bridgetreilly women normally queue for ages at theaters, museums, exhibitions etc. Do you think anyone said to the men who complained about queuing "Just grow up and get over it." And if not, why not? Yet you want the OP to get over it.

VestalVirgin · 07/09/2017 20:45

Women are always told to "get over it", and be considerate of men's manfeelz, and instead of being thanked for it, we get called "emotional".

I'd sure like to "grow up" to like two metres tall and growing a penis, because then, bridgetreilly would go and tell people who hurt MY delicate manfeelz to "grow up".
Sadly, that isn't going to happen, because in reality, people cannot change sex.

TitaniasCloset · 07/09/2017 22:19

Agree with Vestal as usual.

Why is always women who are told to get over it? If you can't see where this issue is heading then you are blind or silly.

indulgentberries · 07/09/2017 22:23

We have gender neutral toilets at work and have had for a few years. The men use the one that used to be the men's toilet and the women use the one that used to be the women's. We don't have anybody who is transgender though.

britbat23 · 08/09/2017 00:18

Where is this mythical land where men and women are shitting and changing tampons with the cubicle doors wide open?

Grow up. Everybody shits farts and wees, men and women alike. Bizarre that we have this Middle Eastern segregation in this single area of life.

Try the mooncup washing thing, I bet none of the men you work with would complain or even notice.

HiJenny35 · 08/09/2017 01:21

Honestly I hate women who stand around in toilets doing their make up, getting in everyone's way when you just want to wash your hands, do it before you leave home and if it needs replacing half way though the day then get some better base and long stay lipstick.
As for washing the moon cup out in a communal sink, I don't want to see that, and i certainly don't want to be washing my hands in a sink that has perviously been used to wash it out and not been disinfected between uses, nasty!

Oh no a man might hear you in the toilet!
Ridiculous fuss over nothing.

Morphene · 08/09/2017 01:36

Do people really find it more embarrassing to change a tampon in a locked cubicle with a man next door than a woman?

But WHY?

Lostwithinthehills · 08/09/2017 07:04

Isn't because of hundreds of years of social conditioning that periods are embarrassing or even shameful and something to be kept hidden? It is less uncomfortable to deal with sanitary protection in a cubicle next to a woman who deals with the same issue than next to a man. Isn't there a greater possibility of a man expressing disgust at a woman dealing with her period or even of him making uninvited public comments than there is with other women?

As many posters have said if the cubicles in the newly defined gender neutral toilets are floor to ceiling many would accept it more easily. Personally I wouldn't want to be in an exposed and vulnerable position with my underwear around my ankles with nothing but a thin partition with substantial gaps at the top and bottom between me and men.

And there is nothing wrong with feeling more comfortable having a pee or poo in a sex segregated toilet. The men were I work have a completely different attitude to discussing such bodily functions, including discussing how smelly another man's poo was, while the women are discrete and respect each other's privacy. I wouldn't want to be put in a position where my use of the toilet suddenly becomes a discussion point.

TimbuktuTimbuktu · 08/09/2017 07:09

They are legally obliged to provide separate cubicle facilities for men and women. Report then to the health and safety executive.

www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

I'd also consider it sex discrimination but I don't know how far you would get with that.

Notahappycustomer · 08/09/2017 07:19

If so many men are queueing for the loo.... who is working?
Everywhere i have worked, high staffed companies, we had limited toilets but people would gi to use the loo. If it was full they would go back to work and try again later. They are adults so unless they have a disability they should be able to tell when they need the loo and wait and not go when they are just desperate. I think yanbu. Can you comolain to HR with a few other colleagues? And list your reasons

maddiemookins16mum · 08/09/2017 07:25

I'm more concerned that women on here seem to think washing out their Mooncups at the communual sink is reasonable!

Notahappycustomer · 08/09/2017 07:53

Yes i agree with maddie too.

ferntwist · 08/09/2017 08:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

MsVestibule · 08/09/2017 08:53

timbuktu great link! OP, would you be able to draw the managers' attention to this and be point out that what they're doing is illegal?

I don't care whether I'm being unreasonable or not, but I would feel very uncomfortable weeing in a cubicle next to a man. Separate cubicles are the norm in our culture and I'm happy for that to continue!

Self contained loo/basin that can be locked from the inside is a completely different issue, but that's not what the problem is here.

lljkk · 08/09/2017 09:15

I'd rather have one toilet to queue for... I hate sharing toilet areas with colleagues at all, of any gender-sex-organ-brain-arrangement. The idea of someone I know professionally hearing me wipe, wee or worse... eek! I have become intolerant to this. The toilet in cafe downstairs from my office has gone gender neutral. Men in there is last straw.

There are custom-built gender neutral toilets at one of our worksites which are fine though. There is no door to the outside foyer, and each toilet is walled up from others. Such a noisy environment that all wees are muffled but if someone sex pestered you (heaven forbid) the scream would be heard by lots of people. Fine by me.

KityGlitr · 08/09/2017 10:48

Yeah I think YABU. I wouldn't have any problem with sharing a bathroom with male colleagues if we had cubicles. I'd have an issue sharing with people who were filthy, didn't flush, peed everywhere etc. but I've known plenty of women who are like that and poor hygiene is a separate issue to be dealt with. I wouldn't care what gender or sex the person in the next cubicle to me is, why would it matter?

I would never do a poo in a bathroom that had cubicles, only one that was fully enclosed like a disabled toilet. Never. But I wouldn't do it in an all-female bathroom either. I don't think your discomfort is a valid reason for them to change the bathrooms back to being segregated. It's better for everyone to have a great number available for use surely.

Lethaldrizzle · 08/09/2017 10:50

i hate sharing toilets with men, they piss on the floor, the rim of the bowl, meaning the place always stinks of piss - and they leave the seat up - female only toilets i never have to touch the seat

lljkk · 08/09/2017 11:13

Do you hover to wee, Lethal?

Aardfart · 08/09/2017 11:37

@maddiemookins16mum how do you wash it out if not in the communal sink?

mirime · 08/09/2017 11:56

@maddiemookins16mum why isn't it reasonable? I empty it down the loo then wash it in the sink. Why is it any different to washing my hands?

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