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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed at this feminist

530 replies

PlayOnWurtz · 05/09/2017 08:01

I happily call myself a feminist and will enter into discussions about it freely in real life and online. I got into one conversation about appearance and politics and how you rationalise body hair removal with feminism. I said I simply feel unclean, it's nothing to do with politics or being oppressed if I don't remove armpit and leg hair I feel like I need a wash.

Cue me being told that I clearly missed the memo on western socialization and oppression and that me removing body hair to feel clean wouldn't happen if I hadn't been socialised to feel this way Hmm erm no love I feel like I need a ruddy good wash if I don't shave I'm not oppressed....

AIBU to be annoyed and more than a bit Hmm

OP posts:
Nikephorus · 05/09/2017 17:43

What really pisses me off is this whole idea that women are 'conditioned' to do it, and if we say we aren't we are lying.
I shave my lower legs because if I don't my legs feel too hot in bed (seriously! I don't see why but they do). I do my armpits because I don't like the feel if I don't - and the hair gets wispy and looks horrible. And my bikini line looks nicer tidy & short. No-one else is going to see it, I've never felt remotely pressurised into doing it, I do it to make ME feel good. I don't like body hair on others because it looks unclean (from a tidy point of view) but that's my OCD kicking in. I don't give a toss whether society says they should or shouldn't.

lambchowder · 05/09/2017 17:45

No. No one ever issued body hair directives outside the police, military and some part of the workforce and that influence was contained...by other's personal preference.

It largely is a coincidence, or result of life choices informed sometimes by ideology or public opinion, sometimes not. Late conception isn't even as widespread as in believed.

Outside opinion is a factor that we weigh. Powerful for some, according to their outward looking tendency and interest in cooperation.

Blahblahboo · 05/09/2017 17:49

I shave everywhere but my head because quite frankly I feel disgusting if I don't. I like to make an effort and not appear too slovenly.

That feeling is helped by these celebs and feminists like Paris Jackson who don't and by all accounts stunk of sweat at the MTV awards ( though that is apparently because She doesn't wash either) Ugh!!! But seriously I hate the feeling of hair and it growing back. I just can't settle while I need to shave my legs or armpits

stevie69 · 05/09/2017 18:00

I don't want my nieces (or my ds's I guess) being sent societal messages that yet another body part of theirs is not good enough

And what, I wonder, is THEIR opinion?

Walkingtowork · 05/09/2017 18:02

Blah you are not disgusting the way you are naturally, honestly Flowers

Walkingtowork · 05/09/2017 18:08

I don't know stevie and I expect they'd die of embarrassment if I asked them! The point is, who wants people we love (or anyone) to be under societal pressure to change something about themselves?

You may not believe that pressure is there, I do, but either way surely we agree that if it is, it shouldn't be? (apolos if that's garbled, I've started on the Wine already)

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 18:09

And what, I wonder, is THEIR opinion?

I would guess they would want to be able to think society thinks their body parts are good enough.

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 18:13

I think when the medical profession are telling pregnant women not to shave their pubes before childbirth because of the ridk of infection and you see comments like "no way am I giving birth with a hairy foof!" Then we have a problem.

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 18:20

Why in earth did I get shaved, by HCP, then before giving birth? Is it in case of the need for c-section?

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 18:41

Yes for a c section but it's not needed for vaginal birth.

coddiwomple · 05/09/2017 18:47

when the medical profession are telling pregnant women not to shave their pubes before childbirth because of the ridk of infection

Only in this country, it's highly recommended in others. Funny how the risk of infection seems to be a UK thing. I did not get shaved by anyone before a natural birth or a c-section, and I bloody wished I had...

Walkingtowork · 05/09/2017 19:02

Right, I've had even more Wine now, and am still pondering this issue...

It is my belief that women are oppressed, to a greater or lesser extent, the world over (from FGM to "naturally more caring", and everything inbetween). I further belief that the closer a culture's standard of female beauty is to how an adult woman looks naturally, is one marker of greater liberation of women in that culture.

Who's with me?

brasty · 05/09/2017 19:06

Not shaving pubic hair is based on research.

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 19:20

Walkingtowork

I am with you.....alas I don't think all our sisters will agree.

DailyMailReadersAreThick · 05/09/2017 19:30

What really pisses me off is this whole idea that women are 'conditioned' to do it, and if we say we aren't we are lying.

So you think it's coincidence that pretty much every woman in England shaves her legs and pits and hardly any men do? Or do you think women are hardwired to not want body hair, and men aren't?

Or is it perhaps more likely that women make that choice based on their conditioning, whether consciously or not?

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 19:39

I do think there is some pressure on men too, especially shaving their chests and having to be buff. They're even being encouraged to wear make up now , its definitely a younger generation thing. Personally I much prefer men to be hairy and don't get this whole hairless trend. I'm in my late 40's and no one of my generation shaves all of their pubic hair off, trim it yes but not hairless. I remember my last partner (who was 10 yrs younger) expected me to shave, I told him to fuck off and he never mentioned it again, nor did it affect our sex life. I genuinely feel sorry for younger women because of the intense pressure to look a certain way. I fear for my 6 yr old daughter.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 05/09/2017 19:41

I did not shave my pits and legs in the bath tonight in honour of this thread

(Actually its because its getting a bit autumny and i cant be arsed)

ponderingprobably · 05/09/2017 19:43

My mother says, when they were at school, they had a corset woman give the girls a talk. She argued corsets were necessary for their health. Yeah..er...right!

Walkingdead11 · 05/09/2017 19:51

Yep and we used to put arsenic on our faces....eventually we wake up to the daftness of female beauty standards and we stop doing them and recognise them as daft!

Carly767 · 05/09/2017 19:59

Pheremones!

StickThatInYourPipe · 05/09/2017 20:07

I like growing for ages and then taking it all off in one go and lying naked in a freshly made bed... pure bliss

Sorry not helping its adding my 10 pence

BartholinsSister · 05/09/2017 20:11

Seems men are free to shave their heads, faces, buttcracks and scrota - but as soon as we do similar it's because we are mindless conditioned sheep.
Is it not possible women simply like the feel of being smooth down below or elsewhere?

AskBasil · 05/09/2017 20:14

I find it half sad, how funny, how defensive and angry people become, when it is suggested to them that they are not uniquely able to withstand the cultural influences which affect every single person who is ever born.

It's no difference to saying that we're all influenced by racism, by religion, by anything else.

How come that 100 years ago, most people believed in God and thought sex outside marriage was a sin? How come 5 centuries ago, most upper class women thought that having a high forehead was so beautiful that they were prepared to sit for hours while their maids plucked the hairs out of their forehead so that they could get the high-forehead look? How come it was so fashionable to have very thin eyebrows a few years ago, that some older women now walk around looking permanently surprised, while younger women have eyebrows my generation of teenagers would have compared to those of Denis Healey? How come we all the same sorts of things attractive at the same time?

It's not because we're stupid or brainwashed and no thoughtful, intelligent feminist would ever say something as crass and simplistic as that. Sometimes, people hear that because their understanding is so crass and simplistic, that they don't actually understand the complexity of the argument.

Cultural influences exist. We're all affected by them. We're all influenced by them. Anyone who thinks they are not, is incredibly arrogant, setting themselves up as uniquely intelligent and impervious to the influences around them unlike anyone else in the world. And then they have the cheek to accuse feminists pointing out that culture exists, of being arrogant. FGS.

WashingMatilda · 05/09/2017 20:16

I shave. A part of me hates that I do but I do. I would love not to. Absolutely love to. The older I've got, the more comfortable I've been with not doing it religiously and only when it's really bad Blush

I think women who shave don't like it pointed out to them that they may not have as much free will as they first thought.

After all, we're all equal now! Women can do what they want! We have a female PM!

So, yeah, I think, as uncomfortable as it is to admit, I absolutely would not randomly pick up some cutting device and spend money and many hours over my lifetime slewing away hair that is there for a reason unless society, whether overtly or more underhand, told me I should.

What gets me the most is the lack of choice.
When I showed my stepsister the first little wisp poking out from my leg at 13 years old, I was marched to the bathroom and she showed me how to shave.
There was no conversation, even my quite liberal mum didn't even ask me how I felt about it myself. It was just done.

So how much of a 'choice' do women have about it really ?

Fuck it, I've got a nice small amount of bedding in my armpits at the moment and I might just see how long I can leave it for Smile

WishfulThanking · 05/09/2017 20:16

I would just leave it, guys. Apparently it's noting to do with societal conditioning. Hmm