to think we no longer live in a Christian country

[orlantina]

More than 53% of people have no faith - according to a recent survey.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41150792

That figure changes to 71% amongst 18-25 yr olds.

It surveyed 3000 adults - so it would be interesting to look behind the stats but it seems that more than half the country have no religion.

Christianity is still probably the most common religion out there.

Should this have implications for areas of national life?

If you say so, just picked thread up again.

Reading about that place in Nigeria - sound great. Doing a lot for the community. Doing good for others. Just what Jesus taught.

And yet, at the same time.

www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/nigerias-religious-leaders-welcome-controversial-anti-gay-law/2014/01/16/12485d88-7ef7-11e3-97d3-b9925ce2c57b_story.html?utm_term=.206f20b3eb05

Christian and Muslim leaders in Nigeria welcomed a controversial law that bans same-sex marriages and imposes a 14-year jail term for homosexual relations.

On Monday (Jan. 13), President Goodluck Jonathan signed into law the Same-Sex Marriage Prohibition Act, which parliament passed in May. The law follows a similar one passed in Uganda in December, which imposes life imprisonment for some types of homosexual acts.

“This is the right thing,” said the Rev. Musa Asake, general secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria. “We don’t have to drift into a situation where we don’t have moral values because someone is giving us money.”

God seems to be a control freak. Do as I say, be good, help others and if you do that, you'll go to Heaven for eternal life. But if you sin, you'll burn in Hell for eternity.* *
*
No no no...* that's the muslims you be good enough you go to heaven and bad enough hell

The Christians you go to heaven for belief and hell for not believing

Said in jest but it's kind of true

Not caught up on the thread this morning, but woke to a story on TV...

A couple of tolerant Christian parents have pulled their DS out of a school and are planning to sue the school for allowing another boy to wear a dress. Apparently their 6 year old son has been put under stress and was ill because he couldn't cope with seeing another boy wearing a dress.

The 'Christian' commentators debating it are so bigoted, makes me feel so sad. Isn't faith wonderful!

Maybe the dress was made of mixed fibres and that is what they object to?

Leviticus 19.19

Iff you believe the bits of the bible attributed to Jesus rather than to his followers, you'd better not be depending solely on faith - the parable of the sheep and the goats is pretty clear on that.

Anyway...today there's a piece on some more cheering statistics from the British Social Attitudes survey in the Times this morning as the moral stance of Christians catches up with secular ethics. 61% of Catholics in the UK now agree the law should allow a woman to have an abortion if she does not wish to have a child. (This isn't the same as saying they are personally ok with it, thats fine - believe what you want but allow others to do likewise). Their support for same-sex relationships has reached 62% - ahead of the CofE at 55% (but still, thats a majority and progress). Lets hope the rank and file can drag their churches into the 20th century (yes, I do know its the 21st)

Blue, I've just read several more reviews of that book, and they don't seem to agree with it's premise. Which is much as I thought from reading it. The problem is that you want religion to have been the cause of goodness, when it's obvious to the rest of us that while it has been of some benefit, it is not responsible for all of human behaviour, particularly as many successful societies have not had the Abrahamic god at all, yet have still managed to survive without killing each other. The premise is patently flawed from that point of view alone.

*A couple of tolerant Christian parents have pulled their DS out of a school and are planning to sue the school for allowing another boy to wear a dress. Apparently their 6 year old son has been put under stress and was ill because he couldn't cope with seeing another boy wearing a dress.

The 'Christian' commentators debating it are so bigoted, makes me feel so sad. Isn't faith wonderful!*

I saw this story. In the interests of being factual though its worth pointing out that both the CofE school and the dioscese are in full support of the boy who was permitted to wear the dress.

I think a story that shows both the best and worst of faith

our country with an established religion and church does more for the poor and the sick than a country that is secular like the US

I'm really not so sure about that. I realise the "poor and sick dumped in the streets" is a familiar trope, but I spend a vast amount of time in the US - I'm here now, actually - and it's never been my observation

I don't pretend their system is perfect and there'll always be exceptions, but there's a darned sight more done to help the disadvantaged at community level than ever there is in the UK; the difference seems to be that many Americans see this as their personal duty as decent members of the public, rather than expecting the state to step in for absolutely everything

Small examples, post Irma, are that already locals are organising transport to get folk to hospital appointments while the buses are out of action; also many with trucks are already driving door to door, offering help to clear up instead of just relying on the county. Nobody's told them to do this, registered their names on some database or whatever - they've simply got on and done it because they think it's the right thing to do

The state isn't always the answer to everything

I think a story that shows both the best and worst of faith

Indeed. I wonder how much their faith influences their beliefs?

If people with the same faith have different views on something to you - and you all have the same faith, surely you need to ask if you are misinterpreting the belief system of that faith?

When the 'best of faith' amounts to not being a dick about something, we are setting a really low bar; which they fail to reach often

Nobody's told them to do this, registered their names on some database or whatever - they've simply got on and done it because they think it's the right thing to do

That happened in the UK post floods. Look at what happened after the bombings in Manchester.

People can be do the right thing because it's the right thing.

I completely agree, Orlantina - as you rightly suggest, there are decent people everywhere

It's just the constant sniping about the US way of doing things which irritates me sometimes; as I said it's certainly not perfect, but it's not the disaster some paint it as either

It's just the constant sniping about the US way of doing things which irritates me sometimes

I think people hear about the healthcare system and the welfare system - and if you are poor or ill, you are left to fend for yourself or given limited support.

A couple of tolerant Christian parents have pulled their DS out of a school and are planning to sue the school for allowing another boy to wear a dress. Apparently their 6 year old son has been put under stress and was ill because he couldn't cope with seeing another boy wearing a dress.

Say family who go to listen to a man wearing a dress every Sunday...

As I understand it, many people in America feel it their duty to help and give money to the needy in exchange for low taxation. In fact, they can often claim it against tax. So I think a lot more gets done at local rather than government level over there.

The US tax system does support giving to 'charity'. Whether this necessarily equates to giving to the 'needy' is another matter... As I understand it a very large proportion of it is given to churches so a lot some will be going into buildings, promoting anti-science schooling.... no doubt some of it is truly charitable. I'd rather have more taxes going to the state sector than go down that route.

Orlantina again you're quite right about what people "hear", though even with healthcare - and particularly welfare - I wonder just how informed some comments we see are. Without going into endless examples, there's an excellent site here which shows yet again that the image of the poor being cast aside is very far from the truth (though as in the UK, there'll still be complaints no matter what support folk receive): govthub.com/welfare-program.aspx?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=welfare&utm_campaign=GH+Welfare+Application+Year

Anyway, though sort of related I guess this is a bit of a derailment and I'm not supposed to do that ... sorry

As the OP,I forgive you for derailing

Say family who go to listen to a man wearing a dress every Sunday...

But Cardinal, it's a special dress.

How is Manila?

We're expecting a delivery of their envelopes...

. Apparently their 6 year old son has been put under stress and was ill because he couldn't cope with seeing another boy wearing a dress

I bet he wasn't the only boy under stress. I wouldn't go as far as remove my kid from the school but i'd be massively wound up if my child was told that depending on what the child wears he can choose whether he wants to be a boy or a girl. Apparently the boy has "swapped sex" more than once and all the kids in the class have to accept it. Absolutely stark raving bonkers. Talk about confusing the kids. We're talking about 6 YEAR OLDS ffs.

Grew up in the eighties. I knew ONE person who was religious aside from my grandmother and she was a bookish, mousey girl in my year. And that's ANY religion.
I now have lots of American religious friends (including anti-evolutionists) who find my total lack of concern for the subject bemusing, so I always tell them, I didn't grow up knowing anyone who took that kind of thing seriously - I can't fake belief. I have no problem with people who have religion and are nice people, I wouldn't argue with them if they aren't using it as an excuse to be horrible, why deny them that comfort? but I do think it's a private thing that should have no place in large companies, politics, education or law.
To me, Christianity in Britain seems an oddity, the territory of the outsider family, the traumatised, the close to death. It's not something that I'd otherwise expect to find in someone my age (30s).

Depending where you live, if your friends start having to think about schools for there kids you may find that (ostensibly) changes, at least for a while.