to think we no longer live in a Christian country

[orlantina]

More than 53% of people have no faith - according to a recent survey.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41150792

That figure changes to 71% amongst 18-25 yr olds.

It surveyed 3000 adults - so it would be interesting to look behind the stats but it seems that more than half the country have no religion.

Christianity is still probably the most common religion out there.

Should this have implications for areas of national life?

When there has been no influence of Abrahamic religions, have LGBT people and women been treated any better?

Yes.

Among Indigenous peoples of the Americas prior to European colonization, a number of nations had respected roles for homosexual, bisexual, and gender-nonconforming individuals; in many indigenous communities, these social and spiritual roles are still observed. While each indigenous culture has its own names for these individuals,] a modern, pan-Indian term that has been adopted by consensus is "Two-Spirit". Typically this individual is recognized early in life, and raised in the appropriate manner, learning from the Elders the customs, spiritual, and social duties fulfilled by these special people in the community.

Homosexuality has been acknowledged in China since ancient times. Scholar Pan Guangdan (潘光旦) came to the conclusion that nearly every emperor in the Han Dynasty had one or more male sex partners. Homosexuality in China, known as the passions of the cut peach and various other euphemisms has been recorded since approximately 600 BCE. Homosexuality was mentioned in many famous works of Chinese literature.

The instances of same-sex affection and sexual interactions described in the classical novel Dream of the Red Chamber seem as familiar to observers in the present as do equivalent stories of romances between heterosexual people during the same period. Confucianism, being primarily a social and political philosophy, focused little on sexuality, whether homosexual or heterosexual. There are also descriptions of lesbians in some history books. It is believed homosexuality was popular in the Song, Ming and Qing dynasties.

The Etoro, or Edolo, are a tribe and ethnic group of Papua New Guinea. Their territory comprises the southern slopes of Mt. Sisa, along the southern edge of the central mountain range of New Guinea, near the Papuan Plateau. They are well known among anthropologists because of ritual homosexual acts practised between the young boys and men of the tribe. The Etoro believe that young boys must ingest the semen of their elders daily from the age of 7 until they turn 17 to achieve adult male status and to properly mature and grow strong.

The Etoro (Papua New Guinea) believe that they each contain a certain amount of life force, the highest concentrations of which are contained in semen. They are well known among anthropologists because of ritual homosexual acts practised between the young boys and men of the tribe. This life force passes to others through sexual relations. Women are seen to waste the life force if they do not get pregnant after sexual intercourse. As people get older, and their bodies weaken, this is attributed to a depletion of their life force. (to be fair this last lot have taken this belief far too far and believe that young boys must ingest the semen of their elders daily from the age of 7 until they turn 17 to achieve adult male status and to properly mature and grow strong....)

Edit error in those last two paragraphs. Obviously.

All well and good but what about the way China enforced 1 child families.

woodhill given the way the demographics were going, that was an understandable if completely erroneous reaction. Let's face it, the world is massively overpopulated. However, balancing the demographic pyramid whist reducing overall population in a complex industrial global economy is going to be extremely, extremely difficult.

I like the concept of forgiveness. By any definition of sinner, I am one.

Gawd, I am so glad I left the club, ages ok!

I very much dislike the concept that if person A has wronged person B, that anyone other than person B has the right to forgive A.

The Christian doctrine of forgiveness may be implicated in the behaviour of priests (not just RC - CofE has bishop Ball etc) who abuse children and then seem to be able to carry on, with no concern for their victims. Presumably they, and their churches, believe they are 'forgiven' and doing important work for the Lord.

Great

Think I'd rather be in the UK.

Think I'd rather be in the UK

You do know what people are talking about. No one is talking about banning religion. There are plenty of examples of countries where religion is banned. That's not a good idea.

I would like to live in a country where religion is allowed but there is no state religion. Wouldn't you?

Blue, you're showing the usual Creationist misunderstanding of the phrase "survival of the fittest". It does not mean that the strongest individual kills all the others and survives. It means that the species which best fits it's environment survives better than those species that don't. Humans have evolved to fit in such a range of environments by using a societal method, whereby everyone works together for the greater good. This is where moral and societal codes come from, as they way predate any Abrahamic religions.

I get that but I don't think China is a paragon of virtue

scottishdiem, Organised religion is no longer about faith. It is about control

Spot on.

I was reading about the Clergy Project in America which supports Priests who no longer believe in god but can't come out because they would lose their job/status/family/life etc. Nearly a thousand Priests have joined it.

woodhill I very much doubt that anyone of any faith or none living in Western Europe where there is freedom thinks China is a paragon of anything...

China's one child policy was a good idea badly exercised. Its not dissimilar to Christians religious attempts, in the opposite direction, to force women to give birth.

I get that but I don't think China is a paragon of virtue

Has anyone said it is?

I get that but I don't think China is a paragon of virtue

Most countries don't have a State Religion. Saudi Arabia does. Egypt does. Iran does. The UK does.

So not sure why China is being discussed.

Forgiveness is one wacked out idea that religion invented. Man of his own free will rapes woman against her free will. Woman is tormented for the rest of her life. Man says sorry to god, is forgiven, allowed into heaven and rewarded with an eternity of pleasure. Its an immoral system which allows Priests to abuse others without consequence.

I was commenting in regard to the supposed freedom of homosexuality in China that had been mentioned.

"This is where moral and societal codes come from, as they way predate any Abrahamic religions."

In such moral and societal codes, there is no need to take care of the sick, the dying, the hungry, the elderly. kind of how our post christian government is trying to take this country down the path backwards to. pulling back the welfare state, the education system, the NHS, so that everyone is to fend for themselves, and that those that cant fit with the new reality will just fall by the wayside. unfettered, unchecked, uncontrolled capitalist society. kind of like our anglo saxon neighbours across the water in their true secular society.

the elderly. kind of how our post christian government

I could have sworn our Prime Minister and the previous Prime Minister were very proud of being Christian and their Christian values

kind of like our anglo saxon neighbours across the water in their true secular society

And the US may be secular but the Trump and the VP are very religious. Vice President Pence has very fundamental views on the way people should live their lives.

there is no need to take care of the sick, the dying, the hungry, the elderly. kind of how our post christian government is trying to take this country down the path backwards to. pulling back the welfare state

The welfare state has only been around since the 20th century.

But again, those are the values that Jesus had. Values that some people who say they are Christian seem to have forgotten.

"that was an understandable if completely erroneous reaction. Let's face it, the world is massively overpopulated. However, balancing the demographic pyramid whist reducing overall population in a complex industrial global economy is going to be extremely, extremely difficult."

theres more outrage about countries that try to check abortion or condom use than there is about a country that carries out enforced abortions and sterilisations on an industrial scale on its population. thats the new reality. certainly the world cannot sustain the level of consumption that humans crave and something has to give. it is probably good for all of us that there are enough people self selecting themselves out of the human gene pool by being gay and lesbian especially when those people are from the biggest consuming societies on earth.

we in the west only make up 20% of the world's population but consume 80% of the world's resources, it is unseemly to be so concerned with the birth rates of the world's poorest populations when there is so much avarice encouraged in our own societies of the world's resources. 'wont someone think of the children' doesnt matter so much with falling fertility rates, birth rates as a response to high household debt, stagnant wages, lowering living standards. at least its not enforced sterilisation as they do in china.

"Lastly, as an atheist, I try to be a good moral person not because I am afraid of some deity, but because it is the right thing to do. It benefits me. It benefits the people I care about. It benefits people in general. What's not to like about that? I get that some people are inherently selfish enough to put self before society, but that has always been so."

the thing is, i dont know you from adam, and you don't know me from adam. in the old days when religion was more important there was alot of social pressure exerted, shame/guilt etc as well as the idea of God to be socially conforming. nowadays theres no need, we have alot of laws to check and balance individuals against each other. laws on nuisance, laws on parking, would you pay into the welfare state if it wasnt the government collecting money from ones wages? would you stick to the speed limit if there speed cameras on every street corner? would you pay your direct debits on time if your history wasnt being recorded to pass onto anyone who you want to borrow from? all the modern ways the state has to monitor and punish its citizen's behaviour means we no longer need the control parts of religion.

in the old days when religion was more important there was alot of social pressure exerted, shame/guilt etc as well as the idea of God to be socially conforming

There is still a lot of social pressure to be conforming today that laws don't cover. You only have to look at AIBU for that.

all the modern ways the state has to monitor and punish its citizen's behaviour means we no longer need the control parts of religion

People are pretty good at controlling their behaviour and in judging / regulating others without the need for the modern State.