Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays

[daffodil10]

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off. And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc. But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday

And I'm not stupid. You don't know me and have no idea of my intelligence level so it's unkind I feel to call me it.

Diddums.

I'll leave the thread. Enjoy getting your kicks from bullying people. Pathetic.

Sorted.

@RedForFilth who's being nasty? Just pointing out the error of chucking out statements without being able to back them up with evidence. We are all entitled to our opinion but if this is the case then it's always good practice to state this is opinion based rather than implicate others.

I could keep on all day......

Ah. And the sound of a victim card being played now.

1. Everyone knows INSET days are taken out of the holidays now, right? We're not going to have this stupid question every year now, are we? ARE we?

Yes. That's exactly how Mumsnet works. A printout of this thread will now be placed in Bounty packs to be distributed to all new parents so they know this piece of information on someone else's employment contacts.

At the same time as the suggestion from a poster upthread that if at any point in the future they may have childcare issues, they should not have had their child.

@MSLehrerin and @echt I agree.
And I wouldn't bother to lower yourself to argue with PA goady unsubstantiated comments.
Let her go on spreading them over threads if she enjoys it.

I think one of the most ludicrous comments I've seen during this thread is the implication that teachers have no need of CPD. I'm sure parents would be (rightly) concerned if schools didn't ensure that staff were thoroughly aware of new developments and changes in curriculum and practice.

Note to self - in future ask the school or council about school matters do not under any circumstances ask innocent questions on a parenting forum- obviously this is not what it's meant for !!

If you are going to ask you should first do a search to check it hasn't been asked before

I think one of the most ludicrous comments I've seen during this thread is the implication that teachers have no need of CPD. I'm sure parents would be (rightly) concerned if schools didn't ensure that staff were thoroughly aware of new developments and changes in curriculum and practice.

I agree - I for one wouldn't want anyone working in any professional capacity to not be doing regular, meaningful CPD if they were going to have any interactions with me and mine.

Maybe it's a challenge for schools? It's clear that many parents don't understand how inset days work (reasonably - why would they?) and are jumping to conclusions/moaning (unreasonably), and that many teachers are teachers are pissed off about misconceptions and moaning. So it feels like a job for schools to better communicate what inset days are for, where they come from, and how it's worked out when to hold them.

I'd suggest it to my school but the 'improving communication and relationships between the school and the parents' working group (established in response to the latest Ofsted) is meeting at 2pm on a Wednesday, when I work. The suggestion for discussions/surveys/online methods to enable a greater range of parents to contribute was dismissed.

@daffodil10 I for one acknowledged in my first post on this thread that you very readily stated that you understood quickly that you were originally under a misapprehension.

Jassy how daft. That excludes working parents as well.

Daffodil10 don't get too stressed at the continuing contributions to the thread from people who didn't get as far as your apology before they responded. It's fairly normal for people to decide they want to add their 2p worth after having read the OP and the first few handfuls of responses - people tend not to have time to read 460 posts to check that the thing they want to say us still worth saying. Don't take it to heart, we are just a bunch of strangers on the Internet.

You don't need to "get back in a box" or have a note to self to refrain from asking questions or insert passive-aggressive little jibes about thinking this was a forum. Just take a moment to think about how your post might be recieved by someone with expertise and knowledge in the atea when starting a new thread.

For example you could have phrased your OP like this:

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off.
Could someone explain the difference between normal school holiday days when both kids and teachers are off school, and inset days when teachers are working but kids aren't?
See how this asks the same question but in a less accusatory way?

And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc.
apologies if this has been covered before. I just want to understand and I do appreciate that teachers work incredibly hard in term time
"Before I get shot down" is often code for "I know I am being incredibly goady here and I want to get my retaliation in first" - it's a phrase best avoided if you don't intend to be goady.

But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday
our inset days are Monday-Wednesday this week and it seems odd to me to have kids only going back for Thursday and Friday
"What's the point of" is a rhetorical phrase which is usually used to mean "There is obviously no point in" - again quite goady, not acknowledging that there could be some well-thought-through reason that you haven't thought of.

I suspect that with a little more thought along these lines you would have got your answer in a simple and polite response without all these posts getting cross about the issue.

Corrilla I'm not 5 ! How patronising

I work for a heating company. Our qualified engineers earn £14 per hour, £20 per hour if they work after 4.30pm & £25 per hour if they work weekends.

Ds is a teacher. He earns £29k per year. Tje going rste in the private sector for someone with his qualifications is £25-40 per hour.

He used to teach at a college where he was only paid for hours worked per week. In the summer he received a lump sum of 28 days worth of pay but got nothing at Christmas/Easter.

daffodil10 in fairness to Corilla's rather sarcastic post, it is getting rather irritating that you keep posting every now and then, highlighting how innocent your first post was, when in fact, it wasn't worded in an innocent way and set the tone for this whole thread. If it was that innocent a question, rather than a little moan, it wouldn't have been posted in "AIBU".

Take further note if you Post in aibu you do not have a right to reply. If people don't grasp your admittance of stupidity or don't read the thread you are not allowed to say anything.

Gradually building up my "idiots guide to mn"

@daffodil10 this is simply not the case. You came on, stated your question, saw how you were wrong and apologised. Subsequent posters inflamed unnecessarily the situation - hence the ensuing mêlée.....

Don't chuck down the victim card - there was absolutely nothing wrong with the post showing how you could have raised your query originally, nor the point saying you'd posted in AIBU....

Jassy how daft. That excludes working parents as well.

Yep! They seem quite cheerful about it. I'm not sure it will solve the problem they're trying to address, but hey ho.

I was taking the hours calculated by my friend who is a primary school teacher, who said that he expected to only work from 9-3 and everything else was unpaid overtime

Well - if a teacher was able to do all the work in the 1265 hrs a year, they would be on £15 an hour.

However - teachers can't do the work expected in that time. So they do a lot of extra work.

It's either unpaid overtime - which is expected,

In theory, 2 teachers could be on the same salary, both doing the same job, both teaching the curriculum, planning etc and with the same responsibilities - but one teacher could do a lot less overtime than the other - for various reasons.

So really, 1 teacher earns more per hour than the other teacher IF you include the overtime in the hourly pay rate.

Please could I make a few factual points.

1. DP is a teacher.
2. It is not the hardest job in the world. But it is hard.
3. He does do work during holidays.
4. When he is at the various parents' evenings till 8-9pm at night he doesn't get paid extra for it.
5. When he goes on a residential trip (away from his own family) he only gets a few pounds per night for it.
6. Teaching now seems to involve social work. He answers parents' concerns about children's wellbeing in his own time and liaises with healthcare professionals etc. in his own time. Because he cares about those children. He is not paid extra for it.
7. He suffered an injury at work that nearly finished him off...
8. School holidays allow teachers to try to recover from the term so they can again give 100% to the children during the next term.
9. DP rarely gets to take our children to school or collect them, even on their first day. He has seen one play in the 9 years they've been at school. He's not there to wave goodbye when they go on camp...and so on and so on.

I get that INSET days and school holidays are frustrating for working parents. But anyone complaining might like to consider the bigger picture of what really happens in teachers' lives!

Toasted. I agree with all your points. Total respect for the time and effort teachers put in to their jobs.

highlighting howinnocentyour first post was, when in fact, it wasn't worded in an innocent way and set the tone for this whole thread. If it was that innocent a question, rather than a little moan, it wouldn't have been posted in "AIBU".
Yeah.

Fair do to ask a question and get a reply.

But the timing if the question plus phrasing plus multiple victim card (well i know never to post in AIBU / i guess in futute i should never ask any question) just feels a little bit fanning thr flames. Obviously, people have got irriated and it's led to a pile on in places between 'people who teach / have a clue about teaching' vs 'peoplr who havent a clue but just love their opinion / don't like teachers'.

I was taking the hours calculated by my friend who is a primary school teacher, who said that he expected to only work from 9-3 and everything else was unpaid overtime

But you are aware, are you not that marking, planning, assessing and preparation can not occur during those hours and therefore must occur before/after those hours? You do understand that teachers are at work much earlier and leave much later to get these things done so could not, for example get another job during this time. They are not earning £19 an hour then, are they as the hours are clearly not that clear cut.

They are not earning £19 an hour then, are they as the hours are clearly not that clear cut

You could argue they are earning £19 an hour but are doing a lot of necessary unpaid overtime? And the job could not be done without all that extra unpaid overtime.