I'm genuinely interested to know (not really an AIBU)

[Alexkate2468]

So I see a lot of comments on AIBU that are unnecessarily horrible. I've always been interested in human behaviour and recently have thought a lot about how social media has influenced the way we iinteract.

I'll admit that the odd time I have been caught up in a thread and have had to stop myself from making an unnecessarily harsh reply. I remember a post I made when I was new to MN and was in a fairly vulnerable state of mind. I made a mistake, posted it on here and got a bashing and even when I kept saying that I knew I was wrong and that I needed to put things right, this wasn't good enough and still the flames were thrown. Im strong enough to sift through the awfulness now but at the time, I had to work hard not to take it to heart. Had I been in the mental place I was a few years ago, it could have impacted my very differently.

So what I want to ask is, if you have ever been caught up in a thread and said something awful by mistake, how did you feel afterwards?

Is anybody brave enough to admit deliberately writing horrible comments? What did you get out of it?

Do people feel they are justified in being mean in some situations?

Do you think we sometimed forget that there are real people behind these posts?

Asking because I'm genuinely interested in how we interact and how this is changing. I put this in AIBU because this is where I see most of the harsh comments.

Not an aibu and very verbose.

"how we interact and how this is changing."

Look up Usenet circa 1987. Mumsnet is positively genteel polite compared to the flamewars then.

One person's horrible is another person's brisk reality check. AIBU is what it says on the tin - give me the truth about my behaviour.

However, home posters behave like dicks. Some ops are oversensitive.

Some people are writing concisely because they're on their phone and it comes over more bluntly than they expected.

Some people me are grouchy when they have PMT

You are projecting your idea of 'mean' onto others , whose ideas of 'mean' are different to yours.

Best not to do that. 👍

I don't think I'm projecting my idea of mean. I can give an example if that helps. Calling someone a c*nt is mean. I haven't meant to sound verbose and if you don't like my post or don't have an answer or strength interested in my topic, you don't have to read it or reply.

People get much braver saying something online when its anon and you can just not go back to read replies. Like you can have your say then leave, and can be brutally honest how you really feel because theres no comeback. They cant see how you look so cant make personal critical comments, youre faceless and so are they. It can be too easy to forget its a real person with feelings youre talking to though. Because you cant see their reaction you cant tell if youre going too far and back off. Being able to have your say then delete/block people gives a sense of security that you can give without having to take. I admit that on fb with people i actually know ive bitten my tongue for months if not years, til they push too far with shitty behaviour, and i tell them exactly what i think of them, block, delete, move on. Im usually very conscious of "treat people how you want to be treated" i re read a written text before sending and often edit it to be less harsh or confrontational, never swear, delete parts completely and generally try to stay neutral and keep the prace. I try to remember from past experience that words really hurt and once something has been said you cant take it back, and sorry cant make everything ok. The times i have been blunt i never feel guilty because it takes a LOT to push me to the point of brutal honesty, and forego trying to spare someones feelings and what i actually say needs saying and is long overdue.

I agree AlmostaJill. There's a difference between being blunt and saying something that needs to be said and saying something because you feel you can get away with it because you're faceless on here.

Calling someone a cunt is mean IF you think the word cunt is a mean word. You are projecting.

I think that Mumsnet used to have a reputation for hosting witty, straight talking women who were sharp but funny. So that drew more and more people, and somewhere along the line, the tone changed. So all too often, especially in Fight Club AIBU, the witty became just sarcastic, the straight talking became unkindly blunt, and the sharp became vicious.

I don't have an 'online persona' - I am who I am, whether you find me here or in real life. I am sometimes sharp or sarky on here, but that's always where I perceive that someone is being a twat, and when I think someone is being deliberately nasty or cruel. I can't abide bullying and the nasty mob mentality of kicking someone when they're down. I've never been deliberately awful or horrible, though - that's not who I am. I'm hot headed, but I cool down quickly too, and if I've been unpleasant or unfair, I'll apologise.

Wow TeaCake5, what an insightful and valuable contribution to the thread.

Like that.

I like to think that I am rarely mean though there have been times where I've wanted to be.

From the other side of the coin, I was mercilessly bullied on a previous site, so much so that it drove me to suicide attempts. One of the particularly nasty cunts advised me to do the world a favour and just kill myself. She was one royal cunt. She had a little clique of followers too. Classic case of cuntishness. It can be absolutely horrendous to read nasty things about yourself.

Some gobshites think they are the purveyors of wisdom when in fact they are just plain nasty. The 'I tell it like it is, I'm the epitome of honest debate, you need to hear the truth' shite gets my goat.

We should all take responsibility for what we say. But we also need to take responsibility for what we do. Hanging out on AIBU when you are feeling low or delicate is the online version of a hair shirt. People do it, feel bad, then complain about feeling bad. Just switch off. Or hang out in Chat or Local or The Doghouse or somewhere kind and fluffy (NetMums?).

So what I want to ask is, if you have ever been caught up in a thread and said something awful by mistake, how did you feel afterwards? I have and I generally apologise. Just like in RL.

I am a lot more direct and frank online. In real life, I might my tongue and humour people a lot, even when they are being ridiculous. You have to in a professional situation. Online, you can tell it like it is. It isn't so much because it is anonymous, more because it is out of work. For example, many school children behave like little sh continuously then fail their exams. In a professional situation you have to "cajole" and ""persuade" parents and children to behave like reasonable human beings, even though it doesn't really work. That is the policy in some schools. Here, you can call it what it is.

Honestly OP I am going to prove your hypothesis I find some people, on posts on here very annoying. I think I know what you're getting at (mean Kleeky bullies) but look at it another way.

A poster posts something ridiculous. Theyre annoying. People advise/ sympathise. They ignore and continue to say bizarre/ self
Pitying/ lazy/ crazy things. Posters get annoyed. 8 pages later, posters get rude.

Now tell me, out of interest in how we interact, does this honestly surprise/ interest you? That people get annoyed or frustrated and show
It?
Because that's perfectly normal, everyday behaviour. You can see it on MN, or in the workplace, or at home, wherever you might want to look for it.

I recently posted something which I believe but in a harsh way. Felt bad about it, I wasn't unkind but I was blunt. Few hours later I went back and said sorry, reiterating what I said but in a kinder fashion. I still believe what i said was correct but I should have toned it down as the OP was in a bad place.

Sadly while I was posting the OP said there had been too many cruel replies and they were leaving the thread. I doubt they saw my apology but I hope there were enough kind ones before she left to have helped her.

The cruel stuff though - I can't understand that and I don't want to.

I apologise if wrong or rude. Only done it a a few times

Yes, I've been unkind before and regretted it. In my defence there was a lot of drip feeding going on, and the OP's OP did come across as a bit unreasonable and neurotic. But when she revealed the horrible backstory I did apologise and try and offer more constructive advice and support.

It annoys me most when posters are openly admitting to a problem and asking for advice on how to fix things, and others come along and post responses like "you have a problem and you need to fix it!". As if the OP hadn't acknowledged it and that wasn't the whole bloody point of the thread. That seems to be a recent and unpleasant MN phenomenon.

Unlike real life, you don't know the person online. You don't know what sort of person they are, what has gone on in their past, what is really going on for them today. Stop being cunts just because you can. Ultimately, I hope legislation catches up soon and cyberbullying becomes a serious offence.
There is a version of a quote I've read and it's along the lines of 'Dance like nobody's watching and speak like everybody's listening'.
I think some posters would be mortified to have their 'wise contributions' read out in public. Some day, I hope that happens to people.

lljkk - yeah, everyone was more outspoken then, and you could call a cunt a cunt without being deleted - BUT there was far less instant jumping on a poster who dared to post in AIBU. I agree with the OP that the instant vitriol that gets poured on AIBU posters is a bit fucking much sometimes, and it's often the first responder that sets the tone of the thread.

Sometimes people will come on later and go "Hang on, that's completely unfair, the OP didn't say that and actually she's not BU at all really" but often as not people just play follow the leader and have a jolly good bash.

I bit my tongue an awful lot in real life, smile and get on with people.
On here I can start a post and let people flame me, it's like a release value.
I do wonder if the people who have a go on here are really like in real life, as they all say I would do this or that if I lived nextdoor to you.
Bet in reality they are just like me, smile and be nice.
Or everyone would be outside screaming the place down.

I don't recall ever really being outright nasty or insulting. I have been cutting or sarcastic. Disagreement can be considered an insult by some people, I know I have reacted all defensive and annoyed by people disagreeing with my opinion on a thread before. It is more about feeling misunderstood though - I can deal much better with someone understanding my point of view but challenging it, than with a person completely getting the wrong idea and then criticising me from a misguided understanding of what I am saying. Frustration can lead to anger, but I don't think I have ever lost control on a thread, effing and jeffing and cunt-ing is not my mo, I don't think it is helpful just posting "you are a cunt", keeping the arguments constructive and relevant is preferable - that is what I try to do... But it is possible that my idea of constructive is insulting to someone else. As I have no control over what other people feel about my posts I try not to worry about it - which works for me.

If someone can't be bothered to read a thread, or misconstrued entirely the op then they may well get a slating for being ignorant. It is a harsh lesson.

Anonymity is the main driver, and the other factor is the culture of a forum.

I first went online at 14 and was very well-behaved until I noticed other, "cooler" users being absolute shitheads and getting away with it. In fact, they became sort of "forum famous". In the space of 6 months, I was sacked from being a moderator and became a forum trouble-maker. That particular forum had a lot of moderators and a strong banning policy. If you got enough infraction points, you were kicked out for 24 hours, a week or permanently.

If you look at reddit, in particular some of the worst subreddits, that's an example of a site with a very lax moderation policy in a lot of places. The subreddit mods set the rules for their own space; the over-arching site has very few rules. Therefore you have entire spaces dedicated to e.g. disturbing porn, extreme misogyny (/r/incels), and gruesome images of corpses. There are also nice subreddits for things like knitting, leatherwork, origami, creative makeup, hamsters and so on that have strong content moderation.

So, moderation and culture is needed to bring people into line. In my experience, MN has very hands-off moderation and relies too much on reports. They also don't have a big enough team and aren't responsive. They're also prone to say "oh dear, maybe you should all be a bit nicer" on a thread but not lock the thread. The other moderation feature I dislike is the fact that MN deletes a comment but leaves up a comment where a poster has quoted the original remark. It seems to undermine the point of removing it in the first place.

A karma system, like reddit, or a post count/upvote a post feature also help to get users into line, but it can work against a website if the culture praises "bad behaviour". For example, on a nasty subreddit you get karma/points in exchange for being a cunt. Ideally, you'd get points for fitting within the culture of the site and useful/fair posts would be rewarded, while snarky or trolling ones would be negatively marked.

I have been thinking about this too OP. I really try to be basically fair and kind and acknowledge the humanity of the other person even when I'm disagreeing with them. It doesn't come naturally, to be honest. I think it's quite a tall order! Sometimes I fail. It's a good goal though: Be fair, be kind, and if you can't be either, at least be funny!

I have in my life had the terrible experience of "going viral" and being the subject of a torrential internet storm for no particular reason (I didn't say or do anything untoward) and it was unexpectedly painful. I would say it was obliterating, actually. It took me a long time to get over it and I am a different person because of the experience. A wiser one, I hope. I think if some of the very cutting posters had gone through this they might think differently about the real (cumulative) impact of their words. Some people are just horrible, and that's sad for them. But others I think just get disconnected from the humanity of the person they are posting to.

You know face to face I am more direct and frank in my speech, but I think this is tempered by the real life nature of the interaction - there's more context.

'So, moderation and culture is needed to bring people into line. In my experience, MN has very hands-off moderation and relies too much on reports. They also don't have a big enough team and aren't responsive. They're also prone to say "oh dear, maybe you should all be a bit nicer" on a thread but not lock the thread. The other moderation feature I dislike is the fact that MN deletes a comment but leaves up a comment where a poster has quoted the original remark. It seems to undermine the point of removing it in the first place.

A karma system, like reddit, or a post count/upvote a post feature also help to get users into line, but it can work against a website if the culture praises "bad behaviour". For example, on a nasty subreddit you get karma/points in exchange for being a cunt. Ideally, you'd get points for fitting within the culture of the site and useful/fair posts would be rewarded, while snarky or trolling ones would be negatively marked.'

It's MN, not reddit. No one has to use it. If you don't like how it's run, don't. To me, the whole 'karma' and 'reputation' type functions are like some juvenile hark back to high school and remind me of a Charlie Brooker film. So I don't use sites like that. It's not compulsory to use sites you don't fancy.

Depends. If you ask for an opinion you can't control the response. I prefer straight talkers though then decide whether it's worth engaging..I find overly polite tiresome and not very genuine.