Dd 14, back to school and new rule females pupils are not to pull up tights in front of male teachers

[catnoir]

Dd 14 had her first assembly of the year this morning, and head mistress / principle has a list of new rules, one including female students are banned from pulling up/ adjusting their 60 denier tights in front of male teachers as she feels this is inappropriate and it must be done in private in bathrooms. Surely this is crazy?

Why not change tampons at the break? Revolutionary thought.

DeleteOrDecay

Genuinely not seeing the problem here. Girl needs to change tampon, oh the horror

There is often a back story of the pupil being disruptive.

grannytomine

Schools are still trying to get pupils to fill up water bottles, have a drink and go to the toilet at break.

If a girl called out that she needed to change her tampon right after break I'd ask her when she thought I changed mine. I'd let her go but I'd make her make up the time after class, I don't want girls leaking in class but they should change during break like I do. If it was towards the end of a double lesson I'd give her the benefit of the doubt but right after break time there's no need for it.

Yanking up your baggy tights is sexual behaviour now? I am a goddess then as I do this without thinking; tights, leggings, jeans, socks whatever is falling down. Obvs would not lift up a skirt to do it but the waistline grab, wriggle and yank is hardly sexy.

Are timings an issue do you think?

When the bell goes for break how long do they get vs how far the classrooms are from the toilets vs how busy the toilets are/waiting tine and time needed to get back to class ?

Are they having to wait ages in dinner queues meaning there's little time to wolf down your dinner and go to the toilet?

Are kids being bullied in the toilets making them reluctant to go at break time?

Ponderingprobably... good question that. What I think has changed is that when I was at secondary school (80s), there wasn't the celebrity culture and the fawning selfie thing that there is now. The teens now have to get attention from somewhere since the z-lebs are in focus all the time so this is the best they can do. Disrupting the class and making a giant fuss about as much as possible.

Only some stuff ought to be personal and most girls/women know that instinctively. Some though clearly don't care and any attention is better than none. Shame on their parents for not putting a stop to it.

Would it be ok for a femail member of staff to excuse herself in a meeting 'just changing my tampon - won't be a sec

If a woman in a meeting said she was popping to the loo, she wouldn't be asked why or told she couldn't go, so she wouldn't need to ever get so far as discussing tampons, would she?

Unfortunately schools now have to teach children about social etiquette- because their parents 'don't see anything wrong'

Really? Maybe society has actually moved on in that women are allowed to mention their periods. We don't have to suffer and hide products away from men in brown paper bags. Why is it not ok to ask for the loo if you need it? What state would our hospitals be in if patients could not ask for toilet assistance?

I think some people are just being too precious. They've really no business teaching if a request to change a tampon is embarrassing. Quite simply if occurrences are logged and a pattern found which suggests there is a problem, further steps, like a discussion with parents / school nurse can occur.

Why not change tampons at the break? Revolutionary thought

Because you've got hundreds of girls trying to use the loos in a very short space of time, and not all of them even necessarily have sanitary bins in them?

Obvs would not lift up a skirt to do it

Which is the issue isn't it? When I was at school, girls used to do it deliberately in front of the boys and male teachers to show off their legs/thighs. Very similar to the old "roll up the waistband" trick that lost of girls did. For as long as girls play that kind of trick, you need rules to stop them doing it and punishing the more obvious/deliberate ones.

Children need to take school as preparation for the adult world and real life.

If a member of staff in the workplace was adjusting and hoiking her tights up in public, that would be somewhat inappropriate. That's just common sense and the comparison to men pulling up their trousers isn't the same.

Pulling and adjusting from the knees would be different, but not lifting the skirt like I've seen.

And yes, some girls do talk about their periods to embarrass teachers. ..they plan it as well.

I remember in school one girl saying she'd embarrass Mr x in physics today. ...then in class said "my boobs are so tender when I'm on my period, I'm so achy".

It was premeditated and attention seeking. The teacher told her to get out. Actually he shouted to get out. She did it to be disruptive and it's usually the not so bright girls who do that kind of thing.

Never underestimate how devious girls can be at that age.

Some people really don't get it do they.

Go to a school or watch Educating Essex, observe the low level disruption and then see the massive difference between a child asking to change a tampon and how that should be dealt with and a child being deliberately disruptive.

Never underestimate how devious girls can be at that age.

Yes, but this is par for the course. Teachers can deal with this. Occurrences can be logged. Problems dealt with if found. A blanket rule though is something of a blunt instrument. Bodily functions / clothing can be discussed appropriately - it is a sound logging system that highlights systematic problems.

Our break is 25 minutes and lunch an hour. I may be totally outing myself now but as a member of staff I do a 4 mile journey between the Upper and Lower sites in my breaktime like many of my colleagues and we still manage to change our tampons at breaktime. Last year on one day I had a form group, taught all six periods and travelled between sites at both break and lunch and I never left a class to go to the toilet. Queues at lunch are staggered so that different year groups queue at different times so that everyone gets a chance to use the loos. Nobody is trying to shame them or make them embarrassed, they just need to learn to remember to go at break times. I went on a DofE walk this year and a girl arrived and immediately needed the toilet. We were at least two hours walk from the nearest loo. She was at having to go in a bush but they had been warned to go before they left home and there was nothing we could do about it.

Unfortunately schools now have to teach children about social etiquette- because their parents 'don't see anything wrong'

What bollocks, there's nothing wrong with talking about periods. Obviously if a teacher notices a pattern of behaviour which is disrupting the class then something needs to be done but if a teacher won't let a girl go to the loo then there's nothing wrong with said girl explaining further.

Why not change tampons at the break? Revolutionary thought
Some girls suffer form horrifically heavy periods especially within the the first couple of years of starting, so sometimes it's necessary.

Thing is, especially when girls are just starting their periods, hormonal fluctuations mean they can flood, come on expectedly and they might not be used to all the products. Teachers need to be sensitive and just log any persistent problems.

In every instance I recall in school, the girls (I went to an all girls Catholic school), who spoke loudly about their periods, were the ones always in trouble, with bad behaviour and low academic ability.

Do women in the workplace start shouting about their periods? Of course not. At least nowhere I've worked.

jelly I would go for the equality act 2010. Schools have special dispensation from some of the articles because...well....you know its really important not to discriminate on grounds of sex, religion etc. unless you are a school for some reason....but I digress.

The point is that schools are allowed to discriminate on admission...but not just generally discriminate.

I strongly feel that girls being refused the right to wear trousers, is unfair as it reduces their ability to do physical exercise at break times, and possibly to keep warm. It is a total no brainer that schools should do all they can to reduce gender stereotyping and I cannot imagine how having a different dress code for girls and boys is defensible within that agenda. There has just been a documentary on the bbc showing how utterly differently adults, including teachers, treat children dressed to feminine and male stereotypes....

Do women in the workplace start shouting about their periods? Of course not. At least nowhere I've worked.

Are women regularly refused access to a toilet in the workplace?

Just on the topic of periods, did we not have a thread the other day about a lady who got her period unexpectedly early and flooded, having to leave the bar with blood on show when her friend wouldn't help?
I'm assuming she was an adult since she was in a bar and probably has a job. Periods can come along unexpectedly whether a girl or a woman.

Delete- actually yes. I can't go to the toilet whenever I like, I have to go at break. If I need to leave a class to go (it's happened twice in 8 years), I have to ask a colleague to come in and cover me whilst I go. There are lots and lots of jobs where you can't go to the toilet except at set times.

Good. I hope the Headteacher applies this rule to in front of anyone, not just male staff.

As a female Secondary school Teacher I was sick of seeing so many girls hoisting their tights up from the thighs, usually lifting their skirts up over their arses in the process, and adjusting around the crotch, wherever they felt like it. In the middle of the courtyard, classroom, assembly hall, whilst being disciplined etc. There are more subtle ways and times to adjust yourself - I wear tights a lot and can sympathise with the girls, but I and many other female staff members used to tell them that the way they were doing it and the place was inappropriate.

Many male staff members feel very uncomfortable when they are expected to talk to girls about their skirts being too short and wearing the incorrect tights for example. One of my male colleagues a few years back was investigated over apparently gazing at a female students' legs whilst he was following school uniform/discipline procedure when her skirt was far too short. It was all proven to be total bollocks, as we all believed it was from the beginning.

Male teachers - in fact all teachers, need protecting as much as possible, but by enforcing rules over tights etc, they are also protecting the students too.

DeleteOrDecay*
Are women regularly refused access to a toilet in the workplace?

In some industries (factory work or teaching for example) you can only go at certain times whether you are male or female.