to think this is a great way of getting top A-Level success rates - I can't believe other schools haven't cottoned on

[orlantina]

Simply don't let the pupils in Y12 who aren't going to get As not do year 13.

Then you are looking good for a high success rate and can market yourself as a great school.

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/aug/29/grammar-school-unlawfully-threw-out-students-who-failed-to-get-top-grades

Unbelievable the school did this...

His argument was that this is a grammar school. And if you buy into the concept of selective education, then you have to accept that if selecting the best pupils is okay at 11, it's also okay at 17. All the students knew if they didn't make the grade they'd be out. yes very good point!

No it's not a good point; 11 is the age that all children with be changing school, 17 certainly is not. Some may decide A levels are not for them but on the basis of genuinely struggling or real disinterest, not because they might get a grade lower than a B. The fact it is a grammar school is irrelevant; the sixth form are not children selected at 11, they are children selected at 16 based on excellent GCSE results. They are not going to fail, but some will get a grade or grades lower than a B. The school is not doing this in the children's interests, but to make themselves look good in the league tables.

All the students knew if they didn't make the grade they'd be out

Perhaps they assumed that, with their sterling GCSE results they would make the grade! Maybe they thought their GCSE grade would map onto the same grade at AS level. Or is it possible they thought that by attending St Olaves which markets itself as such an excellent school, (96% pupils achieve A*-B) that there was no possibility that if they worked, they wouldn't get these grades? I hope this case gets sufficiently well publicised, that others won't make the same mistake.

Over my many years on MN I have been on more selective education threads than I cah to remember,and never has the most rabid pro-selection parent recommended a pure education market with children all negotiating their way up and down the school league tables based on their latest test results.

And if you're reading this, Gove, Cummings, I'm against.

There are tricks to get a positive Progress 8

there are tricks to all school statistics, but parents still look at league tables, I don't know why.

No school statistics are ever "statistically valid" , ever. Anyone who understands statistics knows that.

11 is the age that all children with be changing school, 17 certainly is not.

no, you are wrong about that, selection is far more widespread at 16 and 17 than at 11.

'This goes to show how necessary state education is.'

Lonicera- You know grammar schools (for better or for worse) ARE state schools?

Um. OK. I mean state comprehensive schools. Obviously we don't have any secondary modern schools in our LA either.

^11 is the age that all children with be changing school, 17 certainly is not.

no, you are wrong about that, selection is far more widespread at 16 and 17 than at 11.^

Am I, while I know many sixth forms are selective for Y12, really do many pupils change school half way through a 2-year A level course?

"orlantina

It would make for interesting reading - how many people were accepted to do y12 on courses but then 'for some reason' didn't get to y13.

If they are good enough to get the grades to get into Y12 but there's a high 'attrition' rate at the end, then that raises interesting questions - about teaching quality at 6th form and the standard expected to get into Y13.

It's a great way to make your statistics look good"

This information is readily available from the Department of Education and can be requested under the 'Freedom of Information Act'

I would also suggest that some students have sailed through their GCSEs without much effort and then become unstuck when starting A levels because they simply don't know how to work.

However, this should be picked up by the teachers early on in year 12.

It probably was Lonicera!

The schools which practise this type of manipulation of results are only interested in their league table ratings, they are not interested in producing well rounded, confidant, happy young people and are therefore not good schools. When parents realise that straight As are not the most important thing in life, perhaps we will have fewer children with mental health issues.

More cases coming out of the woodwork now, unsurprisingly - www.theguardian.com/education/2017/aug/31/more-london-sixth-form-schools-face-threat-of-legal-cases-for-exclusion?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn&utm_source=Facebook&utm_content=Education+%26+Com+Care.

Interestingly, the DfE seems by implication to be supporting the pupils:

"The Department for Education has not commented directly on the St Olave’s case because of the legal proceedings, but in a statement released on Wednesday it said its pupil registration regulations made clear that schools are not allowed to remove pupils from sixth form because of academic attainment once they are enrolled. “Excluding pupils temporarily or permanently for non-disciplinary reasons is unlawful,” it said."

NB
Private schools can and do kick kids out for any reason they like at any time they like
as they know that State schools will pick up the pieces.

State schools may only exclude within the law - to which the DfE refers
and I guess parents have finally realised what a con trick many selective schools / academies / free schools are ....

This information is readily available from the Department of Education and can be requested under the 'Freedom of Information Act

If I was an education journalist, I would be requesting that information, analysing it and then publishing the results.

Would make for an interesting discussion.

It should also be statutory information on school websites / prospectuses.

'I guess parents have finally realised what a con trick many selective schools / academies / free schools are ....'

God, let's hope so.

leavers. Yes, I know, but I believe the pupils in the press who are taking action are boys..

At one of my DCs schools, about 6 of the boys didn't get the grades to 'get back in' to Year 13, and some of the boys scraped in by the skin of their teeth (my DS included).

I can honestly say it was down to lack of effort on the boys part.. they coasted their GCSEs and were still riding that wave when they should have been pulling their fingers out.

The school did their absolute best but you can't manage youthful arrogance or optimism..

about 6 of the boys didn't get the grades to 'get back in' to Year 13, and some of the boys scraped in by the skin of their teeth

Well, given the DFE is clearly stating that it's unlawful to remove a pupil during their 6th form career - unless for behaviour, this will no longer be an issue...

Or maybe it will

Looks like they are back in

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/sep/01/st-olaves-allows-rejected-sixth-formers-to-return-to-school

In a statement from the diocese of Chichester on behalf of the school – its first since the practice was first revealed by the Guardian earlier this week – a spokesperson said: “Following a review of the school’s policy on entry to year 13, the headmaster and governors of St Olave’s grammar school have taken the decision to remove this requirement and we have today written to all parents of pupils affected to explain this and offer them the opportunity to return to the school and continue their studies.

“Our aim as a school has been and continues to be to nurture boys who flourish and achieve their full potential academically and in life generally. Our students can grow and flourish, making the very best of their talents to achieve success.

Shame, it means it will not get tested in court
but I suspect a LOT of school websites will get updated over the weekend
a sadist might start taking screenshots ;-)

I don't think the issue here is that students are struggling - just that they aren't necessarily going to get A grades.

It'll be interesting to see how it affects St Olave's percentages next year. I suspect that they may well not be substantially lower, because the teachers will, I trust, pull their fingers out in order to keep standards up.

The issue may still go through the courts as the solicitors say that they've had pupils from other schools approach them about similar practices - although perhaps they're also doing some quick reversals. There are liable to be some pretty overcrowded sixth forms next year.

There are liable to be some pretty overcrowded sixth forms next year

And some interesting statistics.

Somehow I guess the regulations don't apply to private schools....

And if a private school kicks someone out in Y12 and the other good schools are suddenly full with pupils who weren't asked to leave this time, where will the rejected private school children go?

I don't know if a single 6th form that doesn't do this. Just that the grade boundaries are higher or lower depending on the school. At DD's school the boundary is 3Ds