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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is a great way of getting top A-Level success rates - I can't believe other schools haven't cottoned on

417 replies

orlantina · 29/08/2017 19:17

Simply don't let the pupils in Y12 who aren't going to get As not do year 13.

Then you are looking good for a high success rate and can market yourself as a great school.

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/aug/29/grammar-school-unlawfully-threw-out-students-who-failed-to-get-top-grades

Unbelievable the school did this...

OP posts:
sobby · 31/08/2017 19:22

The local very popular independent primary school asked children to leave if they weren't bright enough to get the best results so they always came out top. Of course they would when they have the brightest children left in the school. It happened to my niece and her friend too.

Minaktinga · 31/08/2017 19:31

James O'Brien spoke about this on LBC this week.

His argument was that this is a grammar school. And if you buy into the concept of selective education, then you have to accept that if selecting the best pupils is okay at 11, it's also okay at 17. All the students knew if they didn't make the grade they'd be out.

It would be totally unacceptable in a Comp but this is a grammar school.

Maireadplastic · 31/08/2017 19:33

Apparently it happens in some comps. But anyway.... I would say that anyone who is outraged by this (and as I said earlier, I'm torn) should never, ever mention league tables again.

TrishanFlips · 31/08/2017 19:45

Our local state school used to do this but with the criteria of at least D's at AS. However this year they are not doing it because they say it is not legal. I don't think legality of it has actually been tested in the courts yet but since more A levels are now linear with AS independent I think they have a point. If you take a student on for a two year course you should support them for the two years. Otherwise have a written contract signed by parent and child which clearly state progression criteria and make it absolutely clear at sixth form open days.

LoniceraJaponica · 31/08/2017 19:48

This goes to show how necessary state education is.

In our LA we have one secondary school with a 6th form and one post 16 college which has two sites - one for A levels and one for other post 16 qualifications for the less academic students. Everyone is catered for.

This massaging of GCSE and A level grades is very disturbing.

manicmij · 31/08/2017 19:49

Even in the good old days and as long ago as 1950s I am told schools did not present pupils for an exam if there was any possibility of failure. Based on terms work along with standards achieved throughout the senior years. What's the point of a pupil sitting an exam if likely to fail, all costs money and can demoralising for pupil.

TrishanFlips · 31/08/2017 19:50

Having made the point above though, in some cases it is better to advise students to leave, so that they can do BTEC instead as it is easier for many to get top qualifications in that which woll better serve them than getting poor A levels. Any advice should have the student interest at its heart not league tables.

LoniceraJaponica · 31/08/2017 19:52

I also would like to point out that the anectodal experiences of mumsnetters A levels is irrelevant.

The current A levels are linear and are therefore much harder than in previous years.

IroningMountain · 31/08/2017 19:53

But surely schools have a duty of care once the kid is there. Their GCSEs will have got them into the 6th form and surely there would be kids previously from comps there too. Once there they are the schools responsibility the same as any other 6th form. If the kid isn't disruptive or hadn't done anything wrong then of course it's wrong. If they can do it why can't any other school?

Maireadplastic · 31/08/2017 20:05

Ironing- schools have a duty of care but also have the massive pressure of league tables. Until this pressure is removed they cannot truly operate in the interests of the children.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 31/08/2017 20:05

lonicera

While i don't disagree that anacdotal experiences of my A level is irrelevant

I would like to point out that mine were linear

riceuten · 31/08/2017 20:10

They're being sneaky. They say they will transfer "non qualifying" students onto non-A Level courses, like BTECs, so they will not be excluded, as such.

I mean, why bother educating stupid children at all ? Shouldn't we be sending them up chimneys already ?

Ta1kinPeece · 31/08/2017 20:20

Note that whatever was done in the past - when the school leaving age was 16 - is not really relevant now that it is 18 .....

But this has not been a good summer for Ofqual's sytems
what with the governance failings at CIE
and the lack of oversight of illegal exclusions

OCSockOrphanage · 31/08/2017 20:21

My A levels, in the early 70s, were linear too. That's neither here nor there.

Our local comprehensive, the only one for about 9 miles in a rural catchment, is never going to rival any selective school's results. That in itself is not a debating point; it also offers BTECs and is highly regarded for some vocational courses. But its A level track record is steadily unimpressive, so all those bright aspiring students from unprivileged/normal working families are really not given a picture of what excelling looks like from any direction. Even the teachers don't know what Oxbridge potential looks like, so they are content to suggest that the students aim for university, but at a shade or two below what might be possible if they pushed a little harder. In an era when three years of university fees and living costs is likely to leave a debt of £40k, often more, I do feel that realism ought to kick in earlier before dreams are smashed to smithereens.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 31/08/2017 20:23

y A levels, in the early 70s, were linear too. That's neither here nor there

I agree, that why i said that i wasnt disagreeing Smile

Original poster
orlantina · 31/08/2017 20:40

Massaging 'Progress 8' is also another interesting tactic. Progress 8 is a measure of progress pupils have made in 8 subjects compared to similar pupils. If you get a positive progress 8, then your students have made more progress than if they went to another school..in theory. A zero progress 8 means they have made similar progress to most schools.

There are tricks to get a positive Progress 8. Just encourage pupils to take the right course at GCSE. Not for them but for the school.

OP posts:
TheDailyWail · 31/08/2017 22:06

Do all schools follow progress 8?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 31/08/2017 22:08

Funnily enoigh i was just checking ds1 6th form website and its on there

Ive never seen it before, they seem very happy with it

Maireadplastic · 31/08/2017 22:09

DailyWail- they're supposed to.

Maireadplastic · 31/08/2017 22:10

It's how the league tables are calculated.

Madamechou · 31/08/2017 22:42

I went to a very academic school. They were, however very inclusive and everyone was given the option to do A level(equivalent)
As it turns out, there were a number of us who didn't achieve A grades, and due to academic nature of school we had limited subjects on offer. Result: as students we felt completely out of our depth, felt crap that we weren't achieving high scores and ended up wasting a year that could have been spent persuing more appropriate avenues.
So, I don't entirely disagree with selection of 'suitable' students for final years, as long as the school can adequately guide them in the right direction.
PS- out of the ten or so students from my year in this situation, at least 6 own their own company or are at the top of their field, sadly it took us a lot longer to get there as we struggled through university, or felt inadequate.

Logans · 31/08/2017 23:54

What exactly do schools hope to achieve if they continue this trend? 100% A* nationally achieved by 3% of the age 18 population?! Oh yes, that'd be a useful qualification!! Wink Hmm

Logans · 31/08/2017 23:58

Once upon a time when you were "allowed" to not be an A grade student, you could scrape into a Russel Group Uni doing a perceived difficult degree such as maths, physics with a C C D at A Level!

Bnanda · 01/09/2017 04:23

His argument was that this is a grammar school. And if you buy into the concept of selective education, then you have to accept that if selecting the best pupils is okay at 11, it's also okay at 17. All the students knew if they didn't make the grade they'd be out. yes very good point!

Original poster
orlantina · 01/09/2017 06:45

All the students knew if they didn't make the grade they'd be out

OTOH - it can be argued that "once you're in, you're in" - so the school has an agreement to educate you to the best of their ability, given your ability.

And it can be argued also - why just 17? Why not at anytime during their school career - Y8,Y9 etc.

And the 'grade' can also be argued. Who gets to define the grade?

OP posts: