to think this is a great way of getting top A-Level success rates - I can't believe other schools haven't cottoned on

[orlantina]

Simply don't let the pupils in Y12 who aren't going to get As not do year 13.

Then you are looking good for a high success rate and can market yourself as a great school.

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/aug/29/grammar-school-unlawfully-threw-out-students-who-failed-to-get-top-grades

Unbelievable the school did this...

TheSecondOfHerName Oh yes, I've heard a lot of rumours. :-(

This happens at our local OFSTED 'outstanding' academy in Essex. The school maintains its high proportion of high grades at A level by culling those with poor grades at the end of Y12. The school cares more about its own reputation and overall A level profile than it does about giving individual students the opportunity to improve or just be the best they can be, even if that means getting an grade D, E.

when I was at FE college doing A levels nearly 20 years ago, my friend was nearly prevented from sitting A level history because the college thought she might not get a C. We were a bit about their motives and believed it to be mainly concerning their league table position. So it's not a new thing...

My school used to do this: they refused to enter you for the exam if you were predicted less than a C. Mind you, this was some time ago, they've probably upped that since.

The only exceptions were for Maths and English after they tried to stop a couple of girls doing their key GCSEs and their fee-paying parents rightly went nuts because they were saying they could do all 9 except their maths: but maths is such a vital GCSE, what use is an A* in RE if you don't even get the chance to try for a C in maths?

I am so pleased this policy has been challenged - the threshold was set high enough at the start of 6 th form at this school . How the school then thinks it's acceptable to weed out pupils that might produce lower than a B to massage their results is beyond me.
Unfortunately the whole sorry mess has been driven by parent's beloved league tables . Teenagers have enough pressure on them - time to stamp this unpleasant practice out. If pupils choose to leave to start again or swap to btec it should be their choice - otherwise the schools should suck it up and concentrate on teaching .

I know I'm going to get shot down for this, but as a person who works in sixth form, we don't "kick people out" for our own benefit. People who work in education generally care about their students very much. We want what's best for them. A student who is struggling to achieve at AS or the end of Yr 12 is highly unlikely to suddenly start to during Yr 13. Especially with the new, more difficult A-levels. Most post 18 providers care about grades, not subjects or qualifications. Therefore the vast majority of students who are struggling at the end of year 12 (that's is struggling to gain at least three E grades) would be better off starting again, either with different courses or subjects. You can study at Russell group universities with Btecs and diplomas. A-levels aren't necessary. They're simple one way of getting there. Low A-level grades will open fewer doors than higher grades in other courses. What's one extra year of study in the whole grand scheme of things if it means you have more life choices later in?!

Ultimately it hurts schools to turn students away. We get massive amounts of funding for post 16 students, for each one who doesn't complete A-levels we lose funding for them, we don't let them go lightly. I work my backside off to keep kids in over the year and to work with them on careers advice and support.
www.gov.uk/guidance/16-to-19-funding-how-it-works#how-the-funding-formula-works
We are also required to publish our sixth form retention rates. The dfes automatically does this for us.

www.gov.uk/guidance/what-academies-free-schools-and-colleges-should-publish-online

I know this is long, but sometimes I resent being lumped in a pot that suggests schools and teachers have it in for weaker students. I love my kids and my job (no matter how much stress caused) and I don't let them down if I can help it!

I don't agree with the school in the Guardian though btw!

My daughter found out last week she didn't do well enough to continue into year 13 for one of her subjects.
She is absolutely gutted as her options there are now pretty limited.

"Most sixth forms have a grade threshold for continuing to Y13. At my sons' school, they can only continue to Y13 if they finish Y12 with EEE or above"

At DD's school you can't do year 13 unless you get 3 Ds or above. Thee students can redo year 12 or go elsewhere.

Some of DD's peers achieved Es and Us in year 12. It is pretty pointless these students going on to do A levels.

It's a state comprehensive BTW, and the only school in our LA with a 6th form.

This sort of policy will be less effective for schools trying to massage their results now that KS5 performance tables include 'add back' students who left in year 12.

I know there are moves to look at doing something similar for KS4. The mechanics of it are slightly more complicated though. Most schools attempt to remove one or two of their lowest achievers somehow but I think the moves are to try and combat the most egregious offenders who lose a significant proportion of their cohort.

A school has to have removed a student from their roll by Jan of Y11 not to count in performance tables as it's the spring census that sets the cohort. Some of you seem a little unclear as to how it works.

St Olave's aren't the only grammar to do this though. I know a few of the Kent grammar schools do it, although you are talking 1 or 2 students a year not 16.

I worked in a Further Education College in early 70's and it was going on then. How long before people realise you don't fatten a pig by weighing it.

Ds1 got an E in his history exams last year (linear but the same style of exam as AS so an E in his AS in theory)

We had a meeting at the school and he was the only child with an E in history who was allowed to continue (might have been anyone with less than a D i dont remember)

It was such a shame as he wanted to study history at degree level

He worked very hard and has just got an A

I appreciate that some places want to protect their reputation but so pleased that ds1 s 6th form college took a gamble on him

He is an enthusiastic and obviously clever student who works hard in lessons...but freezes in exams

Majority ( if not all) are now two year Linear A levels so no exam for As at end of year 12 so schools will be ensuring students in correct pathway at start of year 12 , end year 11 so students do not 'waste' their free education by taking exams they may struggle with now it's a linear exam. Could be used to schools advantage as described but, i would like to think, also making the best use of all education settings that are at 16 still free.

It seems pretty common in the grammar schools - we are talking about reasonable grades here not struggling students who would benefit from a restart or swap to btec
They should be allowed to continue with a pass or be advised to look at alternatives - ultimately it should be the pupils choice once they have been accepted on a course .
It's just rotten and makes my blood boil .
Rainbowlou - I hope you can challenge the schools decision in view of the new legal challenge ( not sure what type of school)
Good luck to your daughter - mine swapped through choice from a grammar and enjoyed the encouragement she received at her new 6 th form - sometimes a change is positive

A student who is struggling to achieve at AS or the end of Yr 12 is highly unlikely to suddenly start to during Yr 13

How would you define struggling? If someone is going to get a B or a C - would you call that struggling?

Schools have been doing stuff like this for years - it's just the first time it has been challenged.

Yup.

My DDs school required min of 6 Bs to stay on in Year 12., and min of 3 Ds at AS level to stay on in Year 13.

It definitely put the squeeze on pupils to focus and put the effort in..

Magdalen College School asked a friend's son to find a more suitable school prior to his perfectly reasonable GCSEs - not stellar enough. Go on, sue me you bastards.

Agree that it is not edifying when parents complain about selection when few people apply to St Olave's because it is the local school. However, presumably some do, and really to chuck kids out at end year 12 is just shit. They should make it absolutely clear on the website that they will churn out the average every year.

The school Dd is starting in Sept certainly used to not let kids sit a gcse if they thought they would fail. They had to pay for private entry.

If the kid passed the school would refund the parents the money and then the kidsresult would be included in school stats. If the kid failed then the result isn't in schools stats.

Don't know if they still do it but their gcse pass rate has gone from 99% of kids getting 5x a-c inc mathsand English to 90% so maybe they've stopped. Still pretty good for a non selective state comp.

My kids' school requires a D at the end of Y12 in each subject order to progress to Y13. So, it's a pretty low bar and the students in fairness are well aware of it. There's no point encouraging students to continue if they're likely to get Es and Us, it's a waste of their time and causes distress on A Level day. Not everyone is cut out for the academic side, more should be done to promote vocational courses and apprenticeships.

annandale . I wonder if they do make it clear?

My DDs school did, although it was Ds at AS.

"He worked very hard and has just got an A"

I think to jump from an E in year 12 to an A in year 13 is pretty unusual. I doubt if many 6th forms would predict a jump of 4 grades for a student unless there were extenuating circumstances.

But congratulations and well done to him.

Local indie to me kicks out DC at age 7 if they don't think they are Russell Group potential...

Thank you lonicera

As i said i am grateful they took a punt

But he was a good student in classes and wasnt a child that couldn't be arsed to work so that may have swung it for him

I bet his teachers are very pleased they must feel utterly vindicated as they had to report to the head of department and head of year about him

He was very close to only being able to continue with two A levels...which would have devastated him. And i am not using that word lightly

both of my DDs got into their first choice unis despite less than stellar grades... I dont agree that a D means the student is unacademic and therefore not suited to A level or going on to uni. To achieve an A in photography last year you had to get 79 out of 80. and before people pile in with "photography is just about taking snaps" no it bloody well isnt! requires a high degree of analysis, literacy, observation etc etc.