...to be shocked that my DM has sent me an itemised bill for staying at her house?

[UmBankroll]

Sorry it's a long one. NC as I know some friends and family are Mumsnetters...

So, here's the story:

I'm the only child of a single mother, now in my mid-20s, moved abroad by myself when I was 18 to pursue my career. I come back to the UK every year to visit and stay with my mother for 2-3 weeks generally. Got married to my DH (who is a national of the country I live in) last year, and since getting married we have paid to stay in hotels nearby to my mother's house whenever we visit (3 times in the past 18 months).

This summer DH and I had the flexibility of being able to stay in the UK for longer, due to the fact that I quit my job and he had over a month off work. When discussing our plans with my mother during our visit back in February, she suggested we stay at her house rather than shell out for hotel accommodation for such a long time (prices are very high where she lives - prime location). DH and I were both happy with the idea so we agreed to it.

My mother's house needed a bit of attention in order to make it really comfortable for the 3 of us to co-habit for a month or so. Over a period of 3 months prior to our stay, I discussed with her the things she wanted fixing/changing as well as the alterations I wanted to make to my bedroom & bathroom. We agreed on all the refurbishments and I basically project managed from abroad whilst my mother handled things at the property. DH and I paid for absolutely everything. From two completely new bathrooms, new wooden floors throughout the whole house and new kitchen appliances, to a big new TV for the living room and lots of soft furnishings. DH and I spent upwards of £16k on all the updates (most of it on labour costs...!) and my mother was so happy with it, as were we during our stay. It ended up costing more than a hotel would have, but at least it's an investment in the property rather than just throwing the money away.

Since DH and I came back home just over a week ago, I received an email from my mother with a PDF attachment of an itemised bill for our stay at her house, listing the prices of literally everything down to the hand soap, bath towels and bed linen. Even food (although we regularly ate out or bought our own food from the supermarket and cooked for the 3 of us), and a % of the electricity bill and council tax. The bill she has written - addressed to me only - amounts to over £2000.

As a bit of back story, my mother has been struggling professionally of late (her roles are freelance and have been few and far between for quite some time) and I have bailed her out of a few financial troubles on several occasions over the past few years. At the end of last year, DH and I agreed to help her by taking over her monthly mortgage payment of £2500, which I have transferred monthly to her account ever since. It appears she has massively taken her foot off the gas in terms of trying to find work since we are taking care of this monthly payment. She's in her early 50s and in good health, but keeps dropping rather unsubtle hints about wanting to retire and be a full-time grandma (I'm pregnant with our first).

AIBU to be shocked and quite frankly appalled that she has sent me an itemised bill for the stay which SHE suggested in the first place, especially considering all the financial support we've been giving her anyway, plus taking care of renovating her home to the spec she wanted? AIBU to refuse to pay this bill? And AIBU to think she is seeing my DH (who is very successful) and I as one big meal ticket? It's unfair, it's embarrassing, it's putting an unnecessary pressure on my DH, and we are starting our own family and need to take care of ourselves - we can't bankroll her forever. I really don't know how to react or respond as I don't want to destroy my relationship with my mother, but I'm lost for words that she's taken it this far.

Ouch. If the mortgages are with two separate companies, then the 2008 one is likely to be a second charge mortgage or even not a mortgage at all, but secured loan, which will have a much higher interest rate than a normal mortgage due to the greater risk to the lender. Remember all the adverts for Picture Loans etc. pre-crash? APRs on those were 9-10% and up.

This might sound trivial - but I'd also check out the whole mis-sold ppi claims thing on mortgages from that time frame too your mum could be owed a packet if it was included (as lots were around that time) in her mortgage repayments. I believe the deadline for those claims is pretty imminent OP. Good luck with it all

WomanWithAltitude

Would you really pay all that money (900k plus upkeep of the house) without asking for any legal rights to the house at all? Really?

Its reasonable to ask for a charge on the house or for a formal loan or something for the amount borrowed plus some interest even but VERY GRABBY to expect the whole house in return.

It sounds like the money has come from the OPs 'very successful' DH which might make the OPs Mum more nervous than if it had come from the OP.

Wow. Why don't you pay it then tell her that you will no longer be covering her mortgage payments. And I would be letting her know that you expect the £16,000 you spent on refurbishments back at some point. Has your mum always been like that, or is this a recent thing? There's no reason she can't find some sort of work til she gets another assignment. You've been more than generous, but it appears that's not reciprocated.

Wow Op I'm shocked that a Mum would do that! Without meaning to be rude, is your Mum suffering from any mental illness? My Mum suffers from depression and when she buries her head in the sand and pretends any financial problems don't exist. I've bailed her out on a couple of occassions (obviously not to the sum we're talking here, which to be honest is a bit irrelevant) which I haven't minded doing as she's helped me with childcare loads since I've had my boys, but there is no way my Mum would do something like this to me, even if she needed it. I think you've (unintentionally) made it easy for her to see you as a meal ticket?

No reply from mother as yet. She has ignored my calls and whatsapp messages too (despite reading them).

For those of you saying it was stupid of us to offer to pay her mortgage - we didn't offer. As my OP stated, we agreed to help her when she asked us to, as she had missed 2 consecutive payments and was concerned about repossession. It wasn't initially intended to be a long-term thing (from our side anyway). But when it became clear after months of her needing us to bail her out for the monthly payment, DH and I told her during our stay this summer that we would agree to continue paying indefinitely IF our names were added to the title deed. If she was not willing for our names to be added then we would stop paying in September as we have other commitments we need to prioritise, and she needs to stand on her own two feet if she still wants to keep the property fully in her name.

My mother does have a will and I am her POA. I believe she does have a mis-sold PPI claim lodged currently. She is also part of a class action for a rather substantial investment that went wrong. She had an accountant and a financial advisor but the former was apparently incompetent and the latter has since been imprisoned for fraud. So, she's been undoubtedly naïve but has also suffered from some unscrupulous 'professionals' who have badly advised her over the years.

I'm not sure why my father's whereabouts is relevant to some of you as I said from the start that she's always been a single mother, but he passed away before I was born (and left nothing to my mother or me).

As for her wanting to retire and be a full-time grandma - she has mentioned us building a granny annexe for her in our garden... that's a non-starter with us because I know she hasn't got much experience with children (my grandmother did most of the day-to-day raising of me while my mother was working) and she would be more of a hindrance than a help. I also know I definitely wouldn't want to live in close quarters with her ever again as I can only handle her in short bursts. Staying with her for that length of time over the summer was a mistake and reminded me of all the reasons why I moved out at 18.

You don't need to justify the whereabouts of your Dad as it's completely irrelevant, although sorry to hear he's passed. Hopefully your Mum will respond soon. Have you given her a cut off date for when you will stop paying? I don't think it's as simple as adding your name to the deeds, I believe a remortgage (or new mortgage) will need to be taken out with yours and OH names on, although this is not my area of expertise so I could be wrong

You need to be very careful OP with the options you give your mum. If you do cut off money to her completely and she can't live to the manner to which she is accustomed now and the property is in her name still, she can take out an Equity release. Please make sure she doesn't do this....has she ever mentioned it? My father took one of these out and didn't tell me. When he died, I had to take out a loan to pay off the debt and his release costs in order to get the property back, otherwise I would have lost. Fortunately the interest hadn't risen too much as he'd taken out the release less than two years before ( and Solent it all) but it was still a sizeable amount. We would have lost the property within 10 years if he'd lived longer, as the interest raises alarmingly over a period of years. If she ever signs over for any form of Equity release, you can say goodbye to that property as it will never be yours. I don't want to scare you, but be careful.

She can also only take out an equity release if she doesn't have a mortgage, in case this turns out to be the case. Sorry Op, need to add that, so if she does have a mortgage like she says, then she can't do it. Thought I'd mention it anyway, to be aware.

Wowwhat a read, i'm sorry you and DH are having to deal with this OP

I completely agree that this is an appalling thing to ask of you, but, maybe, just maybe there is something underlying here. Perhaps your mum is beginning to suffer from mental health problems. Being unable to cope with work, finances, life could all be signs. Whatever you do, try and ascertain the truth of the matter. Definitely don't pay but maybe upur mum needs positive encouragement to take the reigns back for herself. She may feel she can't cope, and to date you have both provided for her ref sny shortfalls. If your mum is not herself at the mo, she may just vacantly go with the flow and think this is the way forward. Is it possible she has hidden debts or perhaps needs more money to keep up s pretender life style she's envious of you for?

Maybe this not relevant as it seems that the 'latest' remortgage was actually a while ago, but if the property was in such a state that she wasn't willing to let valuers in -well, she would have had to do so to get that remortgage I would assume?! Was the house in a better state when you lived there OP?

Equity release is just another way of remortgaging and honestly, OPs mum is fully mortgaged.
Besides- isn't that the OPs mums decision anyway? It's her house.

I don't understand why so many people are struggling to believe the numbers here. The loan amount and monthly repayment puts her rate at 7ish% which isn't unusual at all, especially for a poor mortgage, and with little income that's invariabley what she's been forced to take out.

I'm now a bit lost in the thread and it's not clear what OPs mum wants now, if anything. The £2j itemised bill is obviously a bit moot now

So many remortgages don't bother with a surveyor coming in, they just take a zoopla valuation or drive by at the most.

What a cow, YA DEFINITELY NBU OP.
Although, it might give you a chuckle to know that when I read the title I immediately thought of the Hamilton line "heres an itemised list of 30 years of disagreements".

OP. It's hard when you feel you need to be the parent with a parent. It sounds as tho you did the best thing leaving home when you did, and I'm glad you had your grandmother in your life growing up. She clearly did a good job because you sound like you've made a pretty good job of your life so far and even tho you didn't necessarily have the best role model in a mother -she's most probably given you a pretty good idea of how you don't want to be when you're a parent! Can't really offer you any advice on the financial side, but it sounds like despite being emotionally manipulated you have come up with a firm but fair plan. Also don't be guilted into her coming to live with you as it sounds like it would be really bad for your emotional wellbeing. If you can come up with a solution that keeps her at arms length - I think that's best for everyone.how she's acting is completely U, which must be upsetting. Try not to take it personally. She sounds like a narcissist (Hugs). X

Massive hugs OP. What a horrdeously stressful experience especially with your pregnancy. I think anything I would add has already been said, you need proper legal advice and you need her response. But just wanted to give support as I can imgaine it's all taking its toll. You and your husband sound lovely people, it's a shame your mother has take advantage in such a manner but hope you can find a way forward.

DH and I told her during our stay this summer that we would agree to continue paying indefinitely IF our names were added to the title deed.

You are not unreasonable to not want to just give her the money but you must be able to see that it's very wrong to expect you and your DH to effectively jointly own the house just because you are making the mortgage payments. Why don't you all go and see a proper financial advisor/ Solicetor (your mum should see her own) and actually work out something that is fair. I bet the reason that she is behaving so unreasonably is that she thinks you and more probably your DH are out to grab the house.

I'm not financially trained so I don't know what would be the best option but something like a charge on the house or documented loan or a small part share of the house or something. What is shouldn't be is a threat that you will only give her money if she effecting gives you AND you DH joint ownership of the house. That is extremely grabby and calculating.

Sorry to hear you're having such a stressful time op. Can't help much with the financial stuff but glad to see you've had some good advice here.

Hope she replies soon. I would second getting professional legal advice too.

hope you have a relaxing rest of your pregnancy and this gets sorted soon

I agree - the bill is irrelevant in the scheme of things so I'm not sure why people keep posting about it?

If your mum refuses to engage (won't pick up the phone etc.) you may be left with no choice but to stop the support, which will lead to a forced sale or repossession.

That's obviously not a good outcome, but even if she does engage with you now, unless she finds a way to majorly increase her income she will need to sell up at some point. Even if she makes the interest payments, she isn't going to have £450k to pay off the mortgage in 15 yrs. The situation isn't just going to resolve itself.

Kitesky - a charge on the house IS on the title deed.

WomanWithAttitude. I know that but it's not the same as being equal joint owners.

Oops sorry for poor English...

You are a very good daughter. I think it is fair you should have a stake in the equity of this house if you are making the major financial contribution. Your mother has options you know. Selling outright or renting part of the house to help with bills. It seems clear she is struggling and like so many of us, she doesn't want to face the problems. Certainly don't give her any more money for the present. Tell her so and ask her to get in touch soon so you can discuss. Ball in her court. Invite her for Christmas maybe so she isn't lost.