To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

[ChinkChink]

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women.

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

I'm nearly divorced.

I am now Miss

I feel like I'm a whole new person who never existed before!

Can we just get this straight once and for all? Ms Smith is just short for 'It's the female form of Mr. i.e. none of your fucking business what my marital status is' Smith. Geddit?

I hadn't heard of this either. How weird and depressing.

If you're female and take your spouse's name you can call yourself Mrs if you want. If you don't feel like doing that, or want to keep your own name, or aren't married, you can be a Ms. That's the point, to provide a default for women just like "Mr" is the default for men.

I dislike "Mx" because it's ugly, comparatively hard to say, and too similar to "Ms" to sound properly gender-neutral imo, but past that I don't give it much thought other than that it's good that there is gender-neutral option at all.

I'll be interested in whether there's much take-up of it by designated-male-at-birth nonbinary people. I do worry that it'll become cultural code for "uppity, inconvenient woman" rather than what it's supposed to be. I'll be glad if it doesn't.

I'm amazed and hugely saddened by all the people PPs have encountered who've invented this whole other male-centric story behind "Ms". What is this compulsion to screw up everything that could possibly make things more equal?

Not that unmarried people can't be a "Miss" if they want. It's just not the default, that's all.

I hate the sound of Ms (everyone I have ever known has said Mzzzz - this thread is the first I've heard that it's meant to be different).

Most adult women I know say Mrs regardless of marital status. I'm pretty sure that's the way things will go.

Mx is pure bollocks, of course.

hippy - I agree. I remember when it first became an option on forms etc there was great hostility from women and men in the workplace. You were viewed as an extreme men hating feminist.
Mx will go the same way.
Only guys don't seem to have to identify their marital status! And as for female teachers - forever single 🙄

About time all the titles went by the wayside

"am just finding out that Ms implies divorcee!! " It Doesn't! Some mistaken people infer that it means divorcee but it does not.

'Most adult women I know say Mrs regardless of marital status. I'm pretty sure that's the way things will go.'

Weird. I have never met a Mrs who wasn't married or divorced. Never met a single woman who decided she was going to be a Mrs.

I am a Ms, and I've had a lot of flack for using it over the decades which has hardened my determination to use it; now I'm adamant.

Ms is short for 'Mistress', just as is 'Mrs' and even 'Miss'. The title 'Ms' is pronounced 'mizz' and it's been around since the seventeenth century, so no one - but no one - should have a problem with its usage.

I did not change my name when I married - but I had already changed my name when I finally went NC with my family of origin. I didn't want my father's name, so I simply used my own birth names from that point on.

Funnily enough, I've never actually come across the 'divorced' label being ascribed to my usage of 'Ms' (or maybe I just haven't been aware of it?). However the 'radical feminist' and/or 'lesbian' yes - and how. I've got very short hair, as well, which possibly inclines some people to assume one or both(!).

I do care; I care very much. People trying to force me to say whether or not I'm married; people refusing to use the title I have chosen with consideration; people threatening me with various sanctions for not changing my name to my partner's or refusing to state whether or not I'm married (where a man wouldn't have to state such) - so many things have made me absolutely intransigent about this matter.

Perhaps one of the most irritating things I heard on the subject was a man who said "When I don't know whether a woman's 'Miss' or 'Mrs' I always use 'Mrs' because no woman is likely to object if you think she's married when she's not"...

Sometimes I do want a title used (as some PPs have said, in a more formal interaction such as with banks or solicitors or whatever, at least initially) - and that title should not denote whether or not I'm married. It really is no one's business except mine and my partner's. Otherwise, then Firstname Surname is fine; when the relationship moves over into the more relaxed, then Firstname is equally fine.

I've really fought some hard battles for my 'Ms', including walking out on a (temporary) job. I shall always be 'Ms'.

(Oh, and there's always ways past the forms and the idiocies of officialdom - it just takes a bit of trial, error and ingenuity...)

Gosh. I didn't know it was thought of as divorced. I thought it was a woman who is not a child/teen and not married. I've been a Ms for 25 years! Most people I know who are divorced use their married name and Mrs.

This issue drives me nuts, I'm 45 and single but every call centre / customer service person etc automatically refers to me as Mrs Mypyjamas (my Mum!). I am a Dr so prefer to use this but a) lots of people still assume Drs are men (yes really!) and b) correcting them from Mrs to Dr seems to incur a slight sneer from many as if I'm being somewhat pretentious but I earned that in blood sweat and tears!
Don't like Ms at all, never heard of Mx but think it's dreadful. The only designation required is male or female as it's hard to tell on name alone, marital status is irrelevant.

Ms was great and new in the 80s ... A non defining title, all statuses were covered for women. Sad that it's changed in its meaning. In the words of a great friend let's all be fluid! I'm happy to be an mx

Re the pp who said forms are now going with Ms or Mrs only - I've noticed this is the case with British forms. You don't tend to get it in Ireland where it's usually the three options (plus sometimes Sister for nuns!). I really hate it when it's just Ms / Mrs as it seems to imply Ms is simply a substitute for Miss and still indicates marital status.

You don't get the divorce presumption here either. Probably because divorce was legalised long after Ms became mainstream. Probably the only benefit of the influence of the Catholic Church here.......

Ms implies radical feminist/lesbian - I get very angry when addressed as a 'mizz'. I am a Mrs.

^this!

Women can choose their preferred title, men don't have the choice and I hate Mx

Exactly @hippyhippyshake.

I'm married. havent changed my surname. That aside I dislike the fact that a woman's marital status is indicated by the Miss/mrs when a chap is just mr regardless.

I'd like mr and ms as the two options for adults (and capt, rev, dr etc)

The woman who invented the Ms prefix died in the last few months. Confusion over divorced status maybe comes out as a result of that was maybe a category of women who were more likely to use it? Not in my experience but who knows.

I'm married and haven't taken my husband's name. Whether I'm married or not is not really relevant most of the time (as it isn't for men). Feel I'm getting a bit old for Miss and Mrs Maidenname is my mother. Also I don't really like 'Mrs' (just personal, I know some people get a glow saying/hearing it).

Not long after we were married I had booked a plumber - he had my name, email address etc. MIL helped out by being there when he needed to come back a second day. The invoice I got was made out to Mrs Husband's name. I was incensed at the presumption - she had 'changed' my name for me.

'Ms to me does say either divorced, not married after a certain age or militant feminist as everyone else seems happy using Miss or Mrs.'

I cannot believe people like this exist.

Maireadplastic - agreed.

There is no way that women can refer to themselves without coming up with any assumptions. Men just have Mr.

The more women use Ms, the better for all of us. Miss should be reserved for teenagers/v young (as with mademoiselle etc).

There doesn't need to be another title for men because men never change their surname when they get married.

Personally, I think Miss is for any woman, any age before they marry. Mrs for any married woman, and Ms for a divorcee, especially if they keep their married name, but that's probably because I've had a few problems with my DH's ex mrs, trying to use the title to find out things she had no business sticking her beak in.

Mairead
These are exactly the views I got in the workplace when I kept my name after marriage - in fact, this and worse!

I'm divorced and still use MRS and my married surname

Who knew so many women had a fear of being mistaken for a lesbian!

Bit tragic.

I'd rather boil my own head than be called Ms quite frankly.

How do you pronounce Mx?