To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

[ChinkChink]

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women.

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

I'm Ms and always have been (since I could choose). When I got married a handful of people questioned it and I just explained that I didn't change my title because my husband didn't either. I wish it'd just be made official - you are Ms or Mr. Or everyone is Mx. Whichever.

I so agree with OP. I am married, but have kept my name, and as when unmarried, use 'Ms'. People sometimes assume, it's an alternative for Miss though. When I applied a few years back to have a CRO check so I could help at school, the online form refused to allow me to put in 'Ms' and "married". I phoned up the council. The man I spoke to assured me that "Ms" meant "Miss". I had to explain the origin of "Ms" - I gave him chapter and verse, but he was resolute so I asked to speak to his manager. She thought the same and seemed completely bewildered by what I was saying. So I asked to speak to her manager. In the end I gave in and put "Miss" after that manager very apologetically told me that unless they changed the programme (which they wouldn't) I wouldn't be able to have the check done. It's only a small thing in a way, but there just should be an alternative to Mr. Why should women advertise their marital status?

Actually I like the m/f suggestion. How about (F) or (M) before the name instead of Miss, Mr etc? For those that are bothered that is.

Married but never changed my name to to that of DH. I use 'Ms' - on bank cards, professional memberships and so on. For my work I have regular DBS checks (formerly CRB). On trying to do the form on-line, I was puzzled not to be able to get beyond a question about what other names I had been known by. On enquiring, I was told by the nice woman on the phone that using 'Ms' is seen to be the preserve of divorced women who are further presumed to have been known by another name! So, for that one reason, I am 'Miss' for DBS purposes. Go figure!

What I find really frustrating is that Ms and Mx are pretending to be abbreviations but aren't actually short for anything, which means there is no correct way to pronounce them. Ms is often attempted as the ridiculous Mzz, but I haven't heard anyone attempt Mx.

What would the people who use this notation have us say when reading them out? I would approve if a new word were introduced that has a proper pronunciation, but surely pseudo-abbreviations help no one?

If someone wants to keep it a secret whether they are married, then what's wrong with omitting the title altogether? Please don't just leave us with an unpronounceable construction, otherwise we will be left devising something bizarre like the artist formerly known as Prince when he decided that his name was now a symbol.

The problem is it doesn't matter whether you want to use whatever title BUT unfortunately it does matter. People make assumptions about women because of their title. No one even considers if a Mr is married or not....it simply does not matter. People's assumptions and therefore reactions and subsequent actions DO depend on a woman's marital status. I KNOW. I have had to put up with those differences and prejudices all my life.

I just don't understand how Ms is hard to say. I'm saying it now. Ms Ms Ms Ms (I know you can't hear me!). It isn't hard at all in a SE/Essex accent. Maybe it is in other accents?

Agree! It's Miss without the 'i' sound! Quite simple. No 'zzzzzzz' involved at all

Not hard to say at all. Mrs is arguably harder to say with its two syllables and all.

It rhymes with Liz. And fizz.

And I don't want to keep it a secret whether I am married or not. I just think there should be just one title for women as there is for men. Unfortunately in the intervening period before society catches on, we are stuck with at least three! At the moment, Miss says to me "little girl with pigtails", Mrs says "I'm married! Married y'all! I done got me a man!" and Ms says "I'm a woman".

using 'Ms' is seen to be the preserve of divorced women who are further presumed to have been known by another name!

In cases like that, I put my surname in the Previously Known box also :)

hippyhippyshake

It's Miss without the 'i' sound! Quite simple. No 'zzzzzzz' involved at all

If you pronounce as Mss and not Mzz then that is the first time I have come across it and it breaks the usual rule that a solitary s is sounded as z. It is really awkward to pronounce because it has no vowels like Miss or Missus. It's just an abbreviation without being short for anything.

MaroonPencil

And I don't want to keep it a secret whether I am married or not. I just think there should be just one title for women as there is for men.

I don't see how that is helped by adding a third possible title!

I had no idea people saw it as a divorce thing. I occasionally use Ms (that's Msss not Mzzzz) as an alternative to Mrs, when I'm feel a bit angry extreme feminist (as opposed to my usual plain mildly feminism) but I agree with an earlier poster, who said it's frustrating that it should even matter whether a woman is married, divorced, spinster with 35 cats, was a Mr and is now a Ms...whatever.

Well just try borodin. It's not difficult honest.

I absolutely hate the term Ms. I am widowed, but I'm still a Mrs. I can't go back to being a Miss, and I refuse to be a Ms, so Mrs it is!

To be honest, I'm more frustrated by OP's username.

SenecaFalls It rhymes with Liz. And fizz

MakeMineADoubleGin I occasionally use Ms (that's Msss not Mzzzz)

And there's the problem. If you can't even make your minds up yourselves what it's short for and how to pronounce it, how do you expect the rest of us to adopt it with glee?

Always thought that Ms was used when you were uncertain if it was Miss or Mrs.

Perhaps it ought to just mean a female and be done with it!.

Mind you i did love the "Mademoiselle" for a single French woman it just sounded so lovely with a strong accent to hear it but its now been phased out IIRC?

Don't be an ass borodin. You may say bath, I pronounce it barth, we all know what we mean

I had a male Zimbabwean friend who looked confused when I said I was a Ms, not a Mrs & asked what that meant. I said it means it's nobody's business whether I'm married or not, which he thought was hilarious. I'm quite proud of my off the cuff definition

To answer OP, YANBU. I've noticed this increasingly the case and it annoys me too.

16 years in this country and mostly using Ms as in my original language there is no differenciation ... I am just finding out that Ms implies divorcee!! The whole thing is bizarre to me, starting by changing your name!!!

I always took Ms as divorced / widowed.

I'm divorced and put myself as a Miss on everything. That way I feel like I can be 20 again

Proud to be Miss.