To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

[ChinkChink]

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women.

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

No, it's 'miz'. Quite simple. 'Mzz' or 'Muz' is a weird pronounciation used by British people who just don't get it, presumably in a half baked attempt to show that Ms is silly. It's just a group of letters to indicate a short form of 'Mistress' (as is Mrs)- not supposed to be said phonetically.

After all nobody says 'Mr' as mrrrrrr do they? Come on!

notanotherNC snap!

When I actually get asked "what's your title?" I will say "Ms", however if someone says "is that Miss or Mrs?" I will indignantly say "It's Dr!"

In my branch of medicine I write a lot of quite long complex letters and if they're female always refer to my patient as "Ms xxx" as I think it sounds more professional written down than first names.

In person I tend to just say their full name and ask what they'd like me to refer to them as - almost every woman has said their first name is fine. Interestingly about half the men prefer "Mr Surname"

I agree that it's outdated having titles on forms. Even at work we rarely use titles (either sex), so I'm not sure what purpose they serve.

Marketing - you might get different products targeted at you if they know you're a woman rather than a man, and if they can assume you're married or not, even more focussed marketing.

It doesn't matter which title you use as a woman in an English-speaking country. Someone will be judging you for it, whichever you prefer.

I'm not sure why it matters.
I was a miss until I got married. Then I took my husbands name and became a Mrs. I dislike to not be referred to as a Mrs, as that is my title.

Ms sounds awful.

So does Mrs ( missis)

Presumably none of those who use Ms because of the political element and an objection to being the property of their husband wear an engagement ring or wedding band then?

No, I don't. I have a number of lovely rings which I wear depending on what I feel like and what I'm wearing.

I do wear a wedding band but so does DH. I kept my birth surname. So did he.

You know what pisses me off?

Here are some of the typical statuses offered for you to pick from on various forms:

• married
• single
• divorced

What are the rules here - I count myself as divorced in the past and therefore now single - divorced is not an ongoing state, surely?

Is like some assigned stigmata we must wear - we got divorced, pity us!! I didn't 'get' divorced, I divorced him so why should I pick this option and even if it was the opposite way, is it some kind of ongoing mark of failure that means because you were once married but then got divorced, you must hitherto be known as divorced (unless you get back on the team again and get married for a subsequent time) and now you can go back to being married again?

And what relevance is it anyway?

Ebearhug

Why do 'they' need to know when women are married but not men?

What difference does it make to a marketer whether a woman is married or she may be in a long term cohabitation relationship that is indistinguishable from a marriage for marketing purposes.

Titles serve no purpose and are outdated.

Why do 'they' need to know when women are married but not men?

'They' would be happy to know if men are married or not, but traditionally we don't know. They want to know as much as they can. It's why Facebook etc likes us to 'like' things and join online groups and so on. Big Brother is watching, and sending ads accordingly.

Presumably none of those who use Ms because of the political element and an objection to being the property of their husband wear an engagement ring or wedding band then?

I don't, but it would make no difference if I did.

I didn't change my name when I got married (20 years ago) because it's my name. Well it's your father's name.

Lol at @notanotherNC re the PhD! Genius! Just wish I was clever enough for one!!

Isn't it tiresome? I'm in a long term relationship, pregnant and unmarried ;) I have no plans to marry, I'm not a miss. I'm a ms but usually I get asked 'miss or mrs', I reply 'ms' and all correspondence is addressed as miss. Nhs and solicitors particularly egregious offenders. I don't mind what other people use, but I'd like it if my preferences were respected. It happens so often though I don't get annoyed by it. Otherwise I'd be in a perpetual state of annoyance.

I am The Dowager Lady Tindog on the database at work, because I'm very juvenile.

But apart from that, Ms since I was 16, now 48. I'm boggling at the divorced/radical lesbian/feminist/insecure/defensive/"certain type of woman" shite I've read on this thread. Unless by "certain type of woman" it means "the type of idiot who uses The Dowager Lady on the database at work, for the lolz, in which case, guilty as charged.

Where I live, most women (including myself) retain their maiden surnames after marriage and go by Ms. I have never thought of it as a divorcee thing.

I don't think I've ever been called anything but Ms in the US. They manage this just fine.

Well it's your father's name.

Men also (mainly) get their father's name. The point is the expectation is on women to change and not on men, so they both start out with a name of their own, but the sexist tradition is for women to lose theirs.

It's not about the fact that it came from a man to start with (- though if more people abandon it, that patriarchal tradition will also die). It's that the expectations on men and women are different and that is unequal and unfair - and sends out a message of your acceptance of that inequality to your H, your kids and the world in general.

Sorry if I missed it, did the poster come back to clarify "certain type of woman"?

Well my kids have both our surnames and use either or both as they see fit, so I'm doing my bit there too :)

When we were buying our first house, the solicitor acting for us assumed we weren't married because of the different surnames In Ireland, there's an extra protection on the "marital home" (basically, both parties have to agree to its sale regardless of whose name is on the deeds or pays the mortgage) but it has to be registered as such and we only discovered at the last minute that he hadn't filled out the relevant form. I wasn't long about putting him right!

I use Ms, I still use my maiden name, I have both a wedding and an engagement ring.

DH was the one more adamant about me keeping my name than I was (I wanted to, but he was very supportive of me doing so) and will answer to Mr Pop if I have been the first person making arrangements (as I will answer to MrsDHsurname if he has made arrangements) with any new service provider etc. He also wears a wedding ring.

So I don't really see what they have to do with me wanting to use the term Ms rather than Mrs in general.

On coming back from France once with my sons but no husband, I got thoroughly grilled by the border police about who the children were as their surnames did not match mine. He really did not get that they were mine!