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Original poster

To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

662 replies

ChinkChink · 28/08/2017 11:06

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women. Confused

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

OP posts:
TestTubeTeen · 28/08/2017 21:48

TeaChest, have you really actually read this thread and listened to people who have an in principle objection to women's titles referring to their marital status in a way that men's do not?

Do you not understand the political principle? (Whether you agree with it or not, or care about it or not).

TeaChest100 · 28/08/2017 21:48

The thread was about why people jump to a different conclusion. I've explained my perspective which might highlight that for lots of reasons people arrive at different conclusions. It's just our experience.

There is no need to get so defensive.

MiraiDevant · 28/08/2017 21:50

I am Ms and have been for over 30 years. No-one has ever said anything about it.

All my friends with one exception, a Mrs, are Ms. We have never thought twice about it. Why on earth do you make a drama about it?

TestTubeTeen · 28/08/2017 21:50

It is an innacurate ridiculous belief, this 'divorced ' business.

How do people come to swallow such nonsense?

Embarrassedatsoftplay · 28/08/2017 21:53

I quite like the idea of being thought of as a divorcee! How exotic!

I tried DH's name on honeymoon and it lasted all of 5 minutes. Literally. Maybe even less than that. It felt so weird taking someone else's name. Why should I? I'm me. I don't need to change.

Still find it odd when other women do it. I think how sad it is to be sacrificing your identity in the same way you'll spend a lifetime sacrificing yourself for others.

TestTubeTeen · 28/08/2017 21:53

Er, no one is being 'defensive'.

And your assumption that people are being defensive actually implies that you still believe that people use Ms because they are insecure.

I am saying people use Ms because of the sexist difference between men and women's firms of address.

Have you taken on board what you have read on this thread?

TeaChest100 · 28/08/2017 21:54

Presumably none of those who use Ms because of the political element and an objection to being the property of their husband wear an engagement ring or wedding band then?

TestTubeTeen · 28/08/2017 21:55

They might or might not.

Men often wear wedding bands these days.

Best you stop 'presuming'.

bookworm14 · 28/08/2017 21:59

I'm married but use Ms. Not in the least insecure; I just don't see why I should be expected to change my name, and be defined by my marital status, when my husband isn't.

TeaChest100 · 28/08/2017 22:04

Erm excuse me if I've picked up the point of a discussion forum wrongly but I think I was giving my opinion, it wasn't an examination with a binary correct/incorrect answer.

What I have taken on board is that Ms is becoming more common and many people haven't really given thought to its political significance which is probably waning a bit, so I will bear that in mind in future. I have also learned that some users of Ms are strongly feminist to the point of believing it is the only correct position and will shoot down in flames anyone who disagrees.

theymademejoin · 28/08/2017 22:05

I wear a wedding ring sometimes. I don't like engagement rings. My husband wear a wedding ring all the time. I use an honorific that doesn't denote my marital status. So does my husband. Seems pretty equal to me.

Mum2jenny · 28/08/2017 22:07

Will not use Ms or Mx, to be fair I do have to input this sort of crap into a database at work but it lets me out a full stop into the designation box so I do it for everyone. All I need is first name and second name!

I always put on all official forms, n/a, and then my name. It is not necessary at all.

HairNinja · 28/08/2017 22:11

how sad it is to be sacrificing your identity

But for me, my name isn't my identity, how could it be? It was chosen by someone else and given to me before I had my own personality. I had no qualms about changing my surname when I got married, for purely practical reasons. I hated the old one (too long!) and much preferred the new one. In hindsight, I wish I'd changed my forename years ago too.
But don't assume that just because someone changes their surname that it's got anything to do with their identity.

theymademejoin · 28/08/2017 22:11

I don't think anyone has said using Ms is the only correct position although I would prefer if we went with the german/french/spanish option where your honorific is based on age, regardless of sex. The issue is that Ms is seen by some as being odd or different. Personally, I don't care what people use for themselves. I do however, object to people using an honorific for me that I do not choose to use myself.

TeaChest100 · 28/08/2017 22:14

I agree that it's outdated having titles on forms. Even at work we rarely use titles (either sex), so I'm not sure what purpose they serve.

TeaChest100 · 28/08/2017 22:18

I agree @theymademejoin with an age based or no honorific.

stumblymonkeyagain · 28/08/2017 22:19

I'm a Ms now whilst unmarried and I'll be a Ms when I'm married this December.

We're also both taking each other's surname. To
avoid confusion we've included something on the insert in the invitations stolen from a similar MN thread

"We've been asked a few time what our married names will be - we'll be Mr. & Ms HerSurname-HisSurname after our big day"

If anyone sends me something with Mrs Hisname after that I shall be pretty peeved.

SayNoToCarrots · 28/08/2017 22:26

I've been a divorced radical feminist lesbian certain kind of female since I was about fifteen. Fewer and fewer people ask about it now, although when I got married and kept my name and title some people got a bit confused, bless them.

scrabbler3 · 28/08/2017 22:38

At work, I never address clients by their first names, nor they I. When I don't know if Jane Smith is a Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr or whatever I go with Ms Smith. Some women, mainly older ones, swiftly correct me ("it's Mrs!") and it's pretty obvious that they want to clarify that they've bagged their man and he put a ring on it. Sad really. Most women don't seem to care though. In fact these days, lots say "call me Jane". Perhaps everyone will be on first name terms eventually.

HateIsNotGood · 28/08/2017 22:42

I'm a Miss, have been for 55 years, I like my name and am proud that my family name carries on through me, my son has my name. My 4 siblings and half-siblings either changed their names on marriage (and so their dc) or are childless.

I may have been married a couple of times over the years and adopted Mrs if I fancied it, but just for amusement.

Ms is fine, I'd no idea it meant 'divorced' to some - you learn something new every day.

I am Miss. I like it.

DoomGloomAndKaboom · 28/08/2017 22:50

I am going to retitle myself. I no longer identify as 'Ms.' Henceforth I shall demand to be known by the title

Lord God Above Firstname Surname.

I imagine filling out online forms will be quite interesting from now on.

tallbirduk · 28/08/2017 22:53

I didn't change my name when I got married (20 years ago) because it's my name. I wouldn't change my first name, so why would I change my surname? I never even considered it.

I vaguely started being a Ms before being married, but definitely afterwards because what else would I be? However, I do struggle not to feel like a complete knob when I say it. Can't get it right and always feel like I'm being judged as a dungaree wearing lesbian when I do it. (Nothing wrong with dungarees or lesbians btw). This is down to "ahh, one of those eh?" sort of comments over the years - mostly when I was too young to respond in any other way than a pathetic and puzzled titter, or occasionally with a perplexed glare.

It is amazing though that the school can't get it right (Mrs DHname, Miss DHname, Miss Tallbird) and how my schoolyard chums are AMAZED when they discover that me and DH are married because they assumed - because of the different surnames - that we weren't. I am frankly flummoxed that I am so radical.

I have also explained my stance to my 2 x DS as they are interested why we have different surnames.

Anyway. Ms it is.

ItWillBeFridaySoon · 28/08/2017 23:01

During training I was told that we should always refer to ourselves as Ms to avoid patients knowing about our "relationship status".

I used to put Ms if I didn't know of Miss or mrs only to get an angry phone call from a Miss who was most offended that I had used Ms. So always careful now!! If I know someone fairly well i.e. First name on talking but don't know martial status I use first names on letters to avoid that situation occurring again...

Mittens1969 · 28/08/2017 23:32

'Ms implies radical feminist/lesbian - I get very angry when addressed as a 'mizz'. I am a Mrs.'

Fgs, how ridiculous! I can't believe anyone really believes that these days.

I get called Ms sometimes; it doesn't bother me at all though I always call myself Mrs. When I did work as a legal secretary I often had to write Ms as the title as there was nothing to tell me what the title actually was.

Eolian · 28/08/2017 23:35

I think Ms is great in principle, but it was really a poor choice of honorific. You either pronounce it 'Miss', which is stupid because we already have 'Miss'. Or you say 'Mzzz', which sounds more like an insect noise than a word.