To not pay this childminding bill

[Ellie6578]

My one year old goes to a childminder 4 days a week whilst I'm working since October last year, I've had no issues so far.

My dd visits her dad for 2 weeks every 6 weeks, so she doesn't go to the childminder during these times (he lives up north and I'm down south) however I understand that I still have to pay for her missed days in order to secure her place (her dad pays for these 2 weeks of missed time) and that's fine as my contract states I have to pay for 4 days a week even if my dd doesn't attend.

She came back this week after only 4 days of being with her dad unlike the normal 14 days. This was because her dad had to go to Germany for a few days for work and my little girl really would not settle with his mum.

I messaged my childminder and said my dd had come home early and would she be able to have her tomorrow as normal. My childminder stated she could not have her for another 4 days as she had taken in another child for childcare which took up my daughters space. Ok I thought, my mum took time off work to look after her.

I got the invoice yesterday and I've been charged for those 4 days even though I was told my daughter couldn't go in because she had filled her space! So if I paid for it, the Childminder's earning double for half the work. Aibu not to pay for those 4 days?!

What on earth would be in it for a parent to pay full price for anything other than availability?

I've used a cm where I paid a retainer (half price) and it would have been no problem for her to take on other children because I wasn't paying the full amount. I have also used a nursery where I decided on the nursery and needed it from the start of sept but paid a deposit to reserve my place as it was July that I visited and I wanted to ensure I could have the place when I needed it.

I have never encountered any childcare situation where the childcare provider expects full pay with the proviso that they can they turn round and say, sorry I'm not going to give you that service after all. I mean, what's in it for the parent?

I wouldn't be happy to pay since the space was filled by another child. Fair enough paying to 'keep' a space, but what she's done is just cheeky.

Your CM is being unreasonable - she is being paid twice... do not pay it.

You absolutely should not pay! If you are paying for her space then her space should not then be filled by another child! The childminder is taking money from you AND from another family for the same space!!! That is fraud!

If this is a holding fee she is definitely greedy and I would move my child

You're morally correct, but I bet she probably has contract law on her side

No Helliday - leaving 3 weeks before your contract is up is termination of the contract so if you wanted to come back, not possible.
Going on holiday and coming back to find your landlord has sublet while you're gone is exactly the right analogy as the contract is still ongoing.
Like the OP.

As a retired childminder you should definitely not pay. Your childminder was completely wrong in this case. If you are paying full rate to keep the place open then that is exactly what she should have done. Sometimes we are put under pressure to "help out" and this is possibly what has happened but to then try and charge you is wrong. What she should be doing is apologising for taking advantages

Cheeky as fuck.

I never get the bit on a pacey contract where it says how many weeks notice is required for holidays on both sides. Yes, As a cm, I should give as much notice as I can for a holiday as parents have to plan around it, but for a parent who is paying for the space regardless of if they use it or not, I can see no reason for holiday notice at all (other than out of courtesy so I'm not waiting for them in the morning).
I can't imagine the ops cm has been caught out the first time she has resold the place, more likely she has been doing this on an ad hoc basis for a long time and is now hacked off she has been caught out doing it.

It's like leaving three weeks before your contract is up, packing up and returning the keys. Then wanting to move back in a week later to find it rented to someone else.

Actually, the tenant could move back in if contract is not up and they had fully paid the rent until that date. If the landlord had rented the room to someone else and effectively collected two lots of rent they would be in the wrong.

I'm wondering if there was another child hmm. The way I see it you were going to pay her to look after your child without her caring for her. That's a much better option than I will pay you the same amount and you do look after her. I think she pulled a fast one and used the other child as an excuse because she would be paid by you anyway. i would talk to her if you can face it or show her this thread

Yes, show her the thread where people have called her deceitful, greedy, and cheeky, where people have said they hate childminders, and where her entire professional integrity has been called into question. That won't end badly at all, will it?

I have to be honest I hate these childminders. They ought to have tons of certificates to back them up but they are money making scavengers

Childminders do have certificates, you must be qualified and registered in order to work as a childminder. The penalties for working as an unregistered childminder are severe (fine plus jail). I'm have a recognised childcare qualification, I am also qualified in paediatric first aid, food hygiene, and child development. I am trained to deliver the EYFS portion of the National Curriculum. I, and every adult in my household, have an enhanced DBS check. I'm registered with the ICO as a data keeper. I have £5 million of public liability insurance. I'm a member of PACEY. I've been inspected and registered by Ofsted.

I charge money for my services because I am a highly trained professional who is running a business, not a charity. Tell me, do you go to work for free? And do you expect your salary to match your level of qualifications?

😮 she's being very cheeky! It's not unreasonable to pay for days your DC isn't attending when it's your choice because you're basically paying to hold her space like you said, but if the child minder is then filling this space you shouldn't be charged. I would check the text in the contract to make sure but then talk to the childminder and just explain you're happy to either pay for the days to hold the space or not pay for them and have the child minder fill them when your dc isn't there not both.

If I believe the "should pay" camp, CM job as per this situation sounds great- paid for hours when not even working and not off sick! LOL
Find another CM
Ask at school gates perhaps

I'd question it for sure. You've paid and she's getting double. i would not be happy.

Skittykitty, well said

KnowsStuff CMS don't get holiday or sick pay and if not working (hols etc) no pay. They have to pay for all their training which is legally required, first aid for example, and for the equipment they supply to "entertain & educate" the children in their care. My cm had a fabulous set up, provided lots of activities and learning opportunities for my child and was well trained and professional. She was regulated by Ofsted and graded accordingly. Depending on their own family are limited to numbers of young children which in turn affects their income possibilities. Some charge for holidays some don't, some take holding fees for when child is not there some don't. All the important stuff was in her contract which was read and signed and I paid in advance of care so if my child was off for any reason she already had the £s. I think if she could fill holiday spaces she possibly did and that was up to her. If I booked holiday I wouldn't expect her to then have my child if I changed my mind. It's up to the OP to chat to her cm and see if they can come to some amicable solution before the relationship breaks down if it hasn't already.

grandOlejukeofYork
What I meant by the childminder doing what we would all do is making money when she has a space available. Technically the space isn't available as this parent pays the fees for the space and she's been caught out.
I suppose I can't speak for everyone but I'm sure this childminder is just trying to make the most money that she can!
childcare isnt a big earner! X

Yanbu. It's your space that you have to pay for to keep, if another child is using that space, she's not kept it for you.

For those that don't understand why op is nbu, let me explain:
If you have a horse and you pay for a stable, it's your stable for your horse. If your horse was sold or died and you were given the option to keep paying for the stable until you got a new horse, it's still your stable but empty.

If you turn up with your new horse but discover someone else's horse in your stable that you've paid for, that stable has earned twice what it should have. Once for your absent horse and again for someone else's.

It's not rocket science. The childminder has cheated op and is getting twice the money for the space. Once for op's absent child and again for another child. I'd be seriously pissed off and want to know how long it had been going on for and demand my money back.

It's not a space if it's been filled!

No you don't have to pay. You are paying for that space to be kept for her, because generally he space can't be filled. You absolutely should not pay.

I don't know why people keep coming up with bizarre and irrelevant examples to try to Defend the cm.

The example of a tenant and landlord is ridiculous... if a tenant wants to move out before the end of their contract, they might try to negotiate some return of rent but if that's not forthcoming, then the property is theirs until the end of the tenancy. They might decide to move out before the end, but unless the tenancy is actually Terminated then the landlord can't just move someone else in.

The OP didn't cancel anything... there was nothing to cancel: she simply wanted to make use of the space she pays to be held for her dd

OP, do not refuse to pay without first carefully checking your paperwork (contract and policies)and speaking to the CM to clarify the charges.

If it turns out that you are in fact liable and you're refusing to pay then she can take you to the small claims court, part of CM insurance is legal cover for unpaid fees so she'd have financial and legal support in pursuing a claim if it is indeed a charge you are liable for.

"Refuse to pay it! Cancel the cheque! Say you're not giving her a penny!" all sounds great online but in real life could potentially land you in court unless you check the fucking paperwork to see whether or not you have a legal leg to stand on.

We went to see one who wanted us to pay for her to have 4 weeks holiday a year. Not a chance

You do realise you are paying for most of the self employed people who might come to your house to do building work, plumbing etc's holidays?

Hell
OP DIDNT cancel, she was paying normal fees to keep the space open for her child. You dont cancel your rent agreement when you go on holiday. Work do not cancel your contract if you take holiday leave. There is a difference in taking a holiday and paying the full fees to keep the place at the childminders open for you and cancelling the contract. Seriously! You dont seem to understand child minding at all.

Your childminder has done what we all would do
No we really wouldnt, some of us have contracts we stick to.