To assume someone who has a gollywog from childhood is racist?

[InigoTaran]

Me and my partner are currently having a discussion about this and he wants to know whether it's true that black people associate gollywogs with racism...?

It's clearly been established that it's not just a doll, it's a type of black face minstrelsy that is a manifestation of racism. Your relativism nonsense has also been addressed.

You accusing anyone that calls you out on your inability to understand this, separate from your own emotional memories, is virtue signalling, does not cover up that you are at best a troll and at worse a racial apologist. You wouldn't walk down the road with the gollywog in your hand - that surely shows some understanding of the problem. So when does this apologism of actively turning a blind eye become racism?

Read a book: www.routledge.com/Blackface-Minstrelsy-in-Britain/Pickering/p/book/9780754658597

gotspoiler thanks for telling me that you don't really care about domestic violence against women at all, nor do you care about women working in sweatshops, and that you are definitely a racist AND a sexist.

Now I don't have to read your previous posts. Saves time.

gotspoiler thanks for telling me that you don't really care about domestic violence against women at all, nor do you care about women working in sweatshops, and that you are definitely a racist AND a sexist

Where did I say that? Don't know what drugs you are on but i'll have 1kg please

This thread isn't about that. Feminist chat is -----> that way

That's lovely Quencher thanks for that. Maybe read the post I was referring to as to why I wrote that.

I was also bullied badly at school. Next time I get a homeless person which is daily, who will knock on my door for food or come to my car window for money I will tell them no, sorry I can't give you anything because some random person told me I would be the worst kind of person if I gave you some food or money as their friends child was bullied at school.

Or, I can just ignore your nasty nasty post and continue giving because it makes me happy that I can share what I make. Since you clearly have no clue about desperate people in SA you can take your awful post and shove it up your behind, but remove the judge pants first before you it gives you a wedgie. What a nasty person you are!

What a nasty person you are!

Such awful times we live in where these virtue signallers have to put others down. People are probably envious of you because you are 'better'

I'm l better thank anyone at all. I just can't bare to walk past a desperate person digging in a bin whilst I get in my nice car to go home to my nice house from my nice job. It's my duty as a person who is privileged to help those who are in a bad time of their lives.

I, too was in that situation when I lived in the U.K. I lived off the foodbank for a while, cleaned houses on top of my stressful job and lived hand to mouth. So many people helped me so I'm paying that help forward and if that makes me a horrible person so be it.

An the whole reason why people accepted slavery was because it was sold to them as black people not being and looking the same as any other white person. The first books written to explain why slavery was ok depicted black people similarly to what golliwogs are and referred to as savages.

The book that depicts golliwogs has similar themes, be scared of the black person because they are scary and not like us, savages. People are willing to sit here and defend it because it's what they loved as child. You can be forgiven for being a child and not knowing the magnitude of racial slurs it carries. It's insulting to the history of black peoples and the moving forward black people when you walk around with images that depicted black people in derogative manor.
If you think your love for soft toy that is meant to be my representative in negative way trumps a whole group then fine. Keep it but don't flaunt it in front of me because the love for my self, my family and black people trumps that. I will not sit here and nod while knowing what millions of people have been through and still go through effects of slavery because of such a hideous image used to represent me. you to play with it as a child for your own happy childhood, while another child suffered and the legacy lives on.

For this I post I can virtue signal all I want.

I had one as a child and had no idea he had anything to do with black people. It was, to me, just another toy, not a human-like doll, but a toy, much like a bear or something.

I loved him, but eventually he bit the dust, but otherwise I would have kept him, because he was a treasured toy. I would hate anyone to be offended by him (Robert) because that was not the intention.

If people are buying them now then that's a different kettle of fish altogether.

Well I'm leaving thread before anymore of my childhood innocent memories get shattered! I didn't know about Wonder Woman either as swear I thought it was making comeback as I've seen dressing up outfits somewhere.

Also I'm all up for a discussion til it turns nasty and lastly I was under the impression they was to be referred to as just golly, OP who has since vanished.

*I'm l better thank anyone at all. I just can't bare to walk past a desperate person digging in a bin whilst I get in my nice car to go home to my nice house from my nice job. It's my duty as a person who is privileged to help those who are in a bad time of their lives.

I, too was in that situation when I lived in the U.K. I lived off the foodbank for a while, cleaned houses on top of my stressful job and lived hand to mouth. So many people helped me so I'm pa* yes that admirable and lovely thing to do. The way you wrote the other comment came a cross as throwing it back in people faces. Those whom you have helped.
Using it as an argument for not being racist is pointless because people help out for so many reason and that could easily be because you are racist. It's also, a known line people use to justify their racist behaviours and all should be forgiven because of it.

*1. Golliwogs were a purposefully racist invention;

1. Racism was widely embraced by many at the time;
2. Racism is sadly still thriving;
3. Racists are happy to own said purposefully racist invention;
4. The rest of us cannot understand how this is acceptable.

Also, if a dear departed relative left me a Golliwog (See point 2), I suspect they'd be turning in their grave to now be 'remembered' through a racist item.

Ignorance is not bliss. There are many aspects of racism alive and kicking. This thread is about Golliwogs. They are not ok and to try and defend them is ridiculous and unacceptable. You should be ashamed*

Yes, every word of this. Well said, MyLearnedFriend

A shop near me sells them which I found surprising. I overheard the shop owner talking with another customer and they were both agreeing it was just a doll.

Next time I am in the area I plan on saying something as I really think the shop owner isn't aware of how offensive they are.

Any suggestions on how best I could articulate this?

Thank you - this works
1. Golliwogs were a purposefully racist invention

"I was under the impression they was to be referred to as just golly,"

Why?

Using a foodbank/supporting a foodbank, does not offset your delusion that gollywogs are not racist

Gollywogs symbolise the racism of the era they were created in, that is still feeds the oppression that black people experience today = no they aren't because my Nan knitted it for me/I collected the jam tokens.

This braying over former childhood innocence being shattered is truly risible. The gollywog to the child is only a doll; you are adults now, do you hold everything you thought to be true as a child to the same standard now as an adult?

Well, I have 97 gollies (wouldn't call them gollywogs, not sure why, because even though I don't think they are or ever have been racist, I quail at using the word wog. Not sure why. You'd think it'd give me pause for thought, but it doesn't. Hey ho).

I think if I was a racist, I would hardly have chosen to live in South Africa in the 1980s! There were loads of black people there, ffs!

If you think that a black doll with a big smiley mouth and goggly eyes is racist, I suggest you get a life. And if you have a Peppa Pig toy, doesn't that mean you are anti-semitic, because pigs are made of ham after all? Small caricatures of black people aren't racist, and it's only virtue signalling on the left that makes people feel like they are. My gollies are just lovely toys, all of which were knitted by my lovely granny, who explicitly said on a number of occasions that she was not a racist. And since all racists know and acknowlege that they are racist, and use the term about themselves proudly, then what kind of sense does it make to call someone racist when they have specifically said that they are not racist?

It's amazing how people are only willing to boycott things when it comes to race but only when it suits them. The golliwog is one of those that some are resistant to because it like telling a white Person to use the n word, but they become resistant and insist they have the right to offend, bullshit. As if it would add anything better to their life if they didn't use it.

I'm still confused as to why golliwogs are not okay but anything by Disney is absolutely fine with Disney it's not any more. They are frowned upon these days. One of the issues flared up only about three weeks ago. Anyway, among many black people on line every time one resurfaces to make its ugly head known about its existence in history the debate starts up again.

This is ridiculous. Even if the child picked the toy themselves, which they very well may not have, most children don't really register race in any meaningful way at the age that dolls are played with.

It's a bit like the swastika, I think. That was a pretty commonly used religious symbol that was appropriated by the Nazis. As a result, it has come to represent something else. It may not be what it means to you personally, but it's a bit dense not to take on board the fact that, to others, it has a different - and very offensive - meaning. Not the same thing. One has two different meanings. One existed for religious purposes before the nazi swastika. People understand that and we also understand what it meant for the German and condemn that as their emblem.

With golliwog, it's meaning and purpose has always been the same. It has changed. It wasn't good then, nor was good now. You might have been oblivious about its meaning and purpose as child but it does not make the object different from a general view about why it was created.

I would say the same to black Person who uses the n word. The origin is the same no matter what you try and do to the word. It's something that affected people physically and mentally and still represents it.

They are negatively viewed and associated with racism, owning one from childhood and having it stashed away somewhere doesn't make you a racist but you're gonna have to admit people find it offensive and it is historically linked to bad shit. Why you'd want to show that off I don't know? Perhaps it's the same people who have their "Jim'll Fix It" medal from the 80s? Just because there was a time it WAS acceptable doesn't mean it is forever more.

And surely driving a Volkswagen or a Porsche, wearing anything by Hugo Boss, Puma or Adidas, drinking Fanta etc would make you a Nazi? Yes and living under the uk and European governments should be a crime.l in certain towns that benefited from slavery should be banned and crime to do so by anyone benefiting from it. D you see where I am going with this?

The difference is, some are symbols that can where used as emblems, badges of honour to show and be proud of what the people who murdered millions of Jews. Signs of solidarity and unity for the oppressors.

The golliwog was no different. It's a representative of what is meant to be a perception. A sold idea for the image to represent a group.

What you mentioned where by products used to fund them the regime or help. It's like me reducing to go to the British museum because of where the mo eye came from. I could refuse to do so but at the same time leave Europe as whole. Barack Obama should have refused to enter the White House because of the money and labour used to build the White House.

Do you see the logic here?

I actually think that names of places and things should be left the way they are now but any more new ones would be an insult. We know better. Golliwogs belong in a museum where we can see what they were for but not for gloating about the good old childhood days at the expense of a whole race.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace

Good parody post at 14:19 today.

Even if the child picked the toy themselves, which they very well may not have, most children don't really register race in any meaningful way at the age that dolls are played with

That's why you shouldn't give them racist dolls to play with at an impressionable age!

That's lovely Quencher thanks for that. Maybe read the post I was referring to as to why I wrote that. Yes I did and the post that I referred to as whole did not come across well. If you are giving people food, money and things from the bottom of your heart, my words and how I perceive you should not deter you from how you continue to treat them and help and the world needs more people like you.

But when you use use it claim how you are not racist then I will judge you for it. Actions speak louder then words. The people you are helping don't need you to use them as defence mechanism for how virtuous you are.

Or, I can just ignore your nasty nasty post and continue giving because it makes me happy that I can share what I make. Since you clearly have no clue about desperate people in SA you can take your awful post and shove it up your behind, but remove the judge pants first before you it gives you a wedgie. What a nasty person you are! You will be surprised, you have no idea where I was born, how I grew up and lived. so I say no more.

I would rather have a wedgie while defending the defenceless. If that's not what you meant then I can't still take my judge pants off because it hard to tell with people on line. I will wear double instead. Peace ✌️