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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To assume someone who has a gollywog from childhood is racist?

370 replies

InigoTaran · 19/08/2017 00:05

Me and my partner are currently having a discussion about this and he wants to know whether it's true that black people associate gollywogs with racism...?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 19/08/2017 15:29

"This is ridiculous. Even if the child picked the toy themselves, which they very well may not have, most children don't really register race in any meaningful way at the age that dolls are played with"
Of course they don't. Tha's why they need adults to guide them...

quencher · 19/08/2017 15:44

I think if I was a racist, I would hardly have chosen to live in South Africa in the 1980s! There were loads of black people there, ffs! Are you saying no racist people live and move to African countries or places that are predominantly black or African? Surprisingly they do and in droves. Mind boggles., duh! Some people do purposely to abuse the people there.

And if you have a Peppa Pig toy, doesn't that mean you are anti-semitic, because pigs are made of ham after all? I would not purposely give a Muslim or Jewish person a toy of pig unless I knew them very well or was handing them to everybody. What I would not do is take to it to kids in a mosque or send it to Mecca to be handed out to kids visiting. The same way I would not offer bacon. Secondly, it's not based on race and religion changes, beliefs change. Is this so hard to understand ?

Small caricatures of black people aren't racist, and it's only virtue signalling on the left that makes people feel like they are.🤔 shake head and move on.

And since all racists know and acknowlege that they are racist, and use the term about themselves proudly, then what kind of sense does it make to call someone racist when they have specifically said that they are not racist? Not true and that's the point. People can be socially conditioned to be racist the same way sexism works. You might not even know you are being racist or sexist unless you understand it or it affects you as person. This is why male and white privilege is usually used. It's this inability to think beyond you sex or race because everything is ok with you. That bubble is your privilege. Just to note, I am not saying you are white or man. I am stating the bubble you are in. From your post you need to open that door and look around you.

gotspoiler · 19/08/2017 15:44

Do you see the logic here?

Of course. If golliwogs are offensive and that makes us racist for owning them then we are all racist, sexist etc for owning other stuff with their dodgy history

MrsDustyBusty · 19/08/2017 15:47

I think "how could you think I'm a racist? I live in south Africa!" is the greatest question of all time.

quencher · 19/08/2017 15:48

This is ridiculous. Even if the child picked the toy themselves, which they very well may not have, most children don't really register race in any meaningful way at the age that dolls are played with. A child carrying and playing with it does not make it lose its meaning. The same way a child carrying a bright flag in Sweden does not change it meaning. It's still a British flag. They might not know and think it's design from a dress won by one of the spice girls.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/08/2017 15:52

Quencher I think the post you have just analysed at 15:44 was a parody of all the I have a golly but I'm not racist posts.

quencher · 19/08/2017 15:54

Of course. If golliwogs are offensive and that makes us racist for owning them then we are all racist, sexist etc for owning other stuff with their dodgy history yes that's true and that's why you have lots of governments apologising for their countries recent past histories. There something things that are not racist in their own right. They were not made as a racist thing but golliwogs were and a vw and the White House weren't. We could boycott it because of the owners beliefs which would be fair to those who would want to do so.

quencher · 19/08/2017 15:58

I think "how could you think I'm a racist? I live in south Africa!" is the greatest question of all time. I know! How did apartheid happen? Maybe if we answer that, it might enlighten us a bit more. The irony though, it's priceless.

@LassWiTheDelicateAir true!

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 19/08/2017 16:05

Yes - Quencher - my post was a parody, as Lass says. Sorry for confusion!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/08/2017 16:08

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace

It was a very clever one. I was about to launch an attack when it hit me "97 gollies" was an absurdly accurate number !

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 19/08/2017 16:12

Ha ha, I must remember that surreal levels of specificity are key to signposting satire!

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 19/08/2017 16:15

I probably shouldn't mess about like that but in fact the subject makes me so infuriated at people's obtuseness that I can't help ridiculing it.

Adults who keep gollies are either racist or so dumb they don't care that people will think they're racist, which comes to the same thing. So yeah, I said it.

BertrandRussell · 19/08/2017 16:18

Yes, 97 gollies was a good "tell". Depressing that the rest was so credible though........

quencher · 19/08/2017 16:33

97 isn't a good tell. Some people have that many soft toys like my mil, not golliwog though.

You also, have collectors out there who love collecting it for safe keeping while others buy them constantly from car boots to bin.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 19/08/2017 16:35

Well yes, okay, 97 isn't such an outlandish number that I think nobody would have 97 gollywogs.

Timmytoo · 19/08/2017 16:41

Luckily for me though I didn't live through the apartheid as I hadn't been born yet but yes I take your word for it that I'm definitely racist. I belong to the AWB party 🙄 and I have a couple of Gollies somewhere at my parents house in storage and oh yes I'm a nasty, horrible, up my own arse person, as I donate money to people I deem beneath me.

Geez no hope for me then hey? Better tell my friends of different colour that we can no longer be friends as I'm clearly a racist so cannot possibly be seen with them. Luckily my KKK friends will be delighted as they said I was in denial and now I can wear my swastika tattoo with pride. Ok I'm out the closet now whoop!

Checklist · 19/08/2017 16:45

IMO, it's ludicrous to say owning a golly means you are racist. Racist, sexist, you name it attitudes are part of world history and we can't change the past; buts it like saying we can't watch Poldark because everybody who does approves of rape in marriage, or we can't read Jane Eyre because it shows we agree with its treatment of mental illness in an era, when married women were chattels of their husbands!

Nobody could read any book or watch any TV programme or film pre about the 1990s, because they probably contain racist/sexist/whatever attitudes!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/08/2017 16:54

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace

Well yes, okay, 97 isn't such an outlandish number that I think nobody would have 97 gollywogs

It was a good tell. It's the absurd picture of someone going to check and count exactly to determine whether it is 97 or 98 or 96.

If the thread was about shoes I'd say something like I probably have about 50 pairs (I do)- you might would think I'm extravagant but if I said I had 49 pairs you'd think I was extravagant and a bit bonkers.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 19/08/2017 16:58

Lass Grin

Checklist - I don't know about Poldark but there's a difference between reading Jane Eyre and reflecting on its representation of gender, class, and race, and saying nothing about Jane Eyre is sexist/classist/racist. What you seem to be saying is, on the one hand, it's silly to say gollywogs are racist, but on the other, everything from Ye Days of Yore was problematic to a c21st mindset, so why move on from anything at all?

We can't change the past, no, but we can stop pretending it's ok to own a horrible racist toy in 2017. It would be a start.

IgnoreMeEveryOtherReindeerDoes · 19/08/2017 17:02

Does that dumb come with a certificate, I can hang it on wall with all other insults that I won't lose sleep.

Only on mumsnet can post something and it taken and changed into you being bad and miss point of what I associate them to be.

Feel free to insult grammar & spelling next as I'm off to be dumb arse and burn all childhood shit I have and honestly not give a toss

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 19/08/2017 17:05

Don't burn all the shit - but getting rid of any racist dolls would be a good start!

quencher · 19/08/2017 17:08

@Timmytoo grew up. The positive things I said about you in the second post, I meant it and those that followed I meant it too. I can judge all I want. If you know you self as person then that should not matter. Excluding excuses for the golliwogs of cause.

Well racist people can be friends with other people of colour too. They often see them as different from the rest because they know them better and think they are different. I thought this was well known thing and used by racist people a lot.

If you want me to trust you based on what have you said, I can't because I don't know you. I can only take your word for it and leave it where I read it.

Also, the double pants was meant as joke in case i see some else flaunting how many diverse friends or how many times they help and that should be an excuse for behaviour. Which i usually don't buy. It's a general thing and not just you and it's a common perception.

You didn't live through apartheid and that is great but the effects still goes on and it's great you help where you can. That is why I said, more people like you in the world would be great. I meant that and it wasn't a snide comment.

mirime · 19/08/2017 17:23

I have a Golly somewhere, probably in the garage, and a Robertsons badge. I certainly don't display them because I now understand what they represent, but like a lot of my childhood toys I've not got rid of them either.

I don't think an old stuffed toy in a black back in storage says anything about me now apart from indicating that I'm sentimental about childhood things and really bad at getting rid of stuff.

quencher · 19/08/2017 17:24

Nobody could read any book or watch any TV programme or film pre about the 1990s, because they probably contain racist/sexist/whatever attitudes! Well I cross check every book my child reads. Read about tv shows and movies that have any racist things. There are some tv shows and movies I would watch now if I knew the intention was to racially spread hatred or have distorted views about black people. I can make that choice and I do. So times I get it wrong and go along with it and think it will get better but when it gets worse I have the right to not continue. Which I do. I don't watch almost all slave movies and tv anymore, any way. I can watch documentaries because the premise is different. The element of entertainment is taken out of it.

saying we can't watch Poldark because everybody who does approves of rape in marriage, or we can't read Jane Eyre because it shows we agree with its treatment of mental illness in an era, when married women were chattels of their husbands! I think you can but it has to be based on how it has been filmed and portrayed. If it's shown as something that was wrong then you can have an argument for why it's ok we should watch it.

Slaves films are made all the time and no one has banned them yet. I think it's the context on how it plays out.

What would be wrong is when every Victorian or period drama is filmed with the men raping their wives or women and it's made to be part of the constant story lines. Repeated in every each one of them as something that is a must to show what the times where like. That would be a problem and it's the same reason I stoped watching period dramas that feature black people. They have to be racially abused to make a statement of the times. And usually brought in for two minutes to be racially abused then sent of their merry ways. Job done. We have featured a black Person and we can now movie on with the movie or tv show.