To assume someone who has a gollywog from childhood is racist?

[InigoTaran]

Me and my partner are currently having a discussion about this and he wants to know whether it's true that black people associate gollywogs with racism...?

And surely driving a Volkswagen or a Porsche, wearing anything by Hugo Boss, Puma or Adidas, drinking Fanta etc would make you a Nazi?

I'M PRETENDING I CAN'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ITEM THAT IS SPECIFICALLY AND SOLELY A RACIST CARICATURE CREATED WITH THE EXPRESS PURPOSE OF DEHUMANISING PEOPLE WHO STILL SUFFER WIDE DISCRIMINATION TODAY AND PRODUCT RELATED TO LONG DEAD INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE RACISTS.

THIS IS ME BEING CLEVER.

Oh.

PRODUCT RELATED TO LONG DEAD INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE RACISTS

Like the German products I just mentioned that were used by or invented by Nazis?

Yes. I know it's hard to understand, but fanta wasn't invented as a racist caricature. It was invented as - and is still used as - a drink.

Gollywogs were invented as a racist caricature and their nature and purpose hasn't changed either.

"It suddenly seems ok go all the secret racists to crawl out of the woodwork, why is that?"
I think the post Brexit gollywog meme someone referred to earlier might go some way towards explaining.

Mrs Do you use Apple products? Nike? Adidas? Buy Zara clothes? All of these companies depend on sweatshop labour and the exploitation of impoverished minority groups. Does buying those products make you as bad as the companies?

Your argument is futile.

Lots of things have a history. You can't bleach it just by getting rid of things, ignoring the issues, shutting discussion down by accusing people of being racists etc (not saying that you're doing that, just that many on this thread have said as much).

No one is saying throw out your golliwogs along with seemingly every precious childhood memory knitted into the very being of it.

I've made the following point in every single one of my comments so I think you are being deliberately obtuse (or just ignoring me and the others making the same points). How can you not accept that the existence of a golliwog toy is intrinsically linked to the dehumanising racial stereotyping that is also knitted into the very being of it. This may not have been actively realised by the adults that bought it for you, but you have surely developed past infancy and see there are structures outside of yourself and own experience.

Ironically, the exact issues with golliwogs are present in films like Dumbo, where white men were hired to voice those jive talking, finger snapping, hard hitting crows... One of them is named Jim Crow for fucks sake. Or do you just watch them blindly, without any comment because "it's a kid's film, let them have their innocence". An innocence that will develop into the same racial apologist nonsense you are spouting.

But whatever, surely rape and murder are worse. What about the paedophiles? Surely those are far worse compared to watching disney, with a pair of adidas gazelles on your feet, a blood diamond on your hand and a golliwog by your side.

Lets not forget Nestle and the shit they used to do. I bet most if not all MNers use Nestle products

The shocking thing is, you still consider this a productive line of reasoning.

Using the word "reasoning" in the broadest possible sense, of course.

*reasoning as in aphasic shouting at a brick wall

Don't tell me I'm racist when you don't even know me. In fact I probably do more for black people than you will ever do, considering I live in Africa and I'm always helping with food or money, I also donate to a school and I support quite a few charities aimed at helping poor people in townships. Why the shit will I do that if I were racist. So before you judge others know their situation or you make yourself look like a fool!! Oh! Fuck off. You are the worst sort of people. Just because you help in other ways, it does not mean you don't look down on people or not racist. I absolutely hate people who say things the way you have just done here. My best friend was bullied by kids from school while saying the exact same thing you have just stated here and used it to justify their behaviour because they and their family donate to all sorts of charities, monthly or yearly. she had miserable high school because she was from South Sudan and people thought she could be butt of the joke with their donations.

You are no better quencher. Virtue signalling because someone else owns a doll you don't like?

The main difference I see between Zara clothes, Nestlé, Diamonds, Nike products and other goods produced in sweatshops vs Golly dolls, is that people across the world are suffering daily in a form of modern day slavery, just to satisfy the more affluent Wests' desire for cheap goods.

A Golly is a toy which hurt peoples' feelings.

Are we really saying that risking offending somebody by owning an old toy, is worse than contributing to the ongoing trauma of people in sweatshops, just because you don't have to see the people who suffer before you buy your phone/clothes/chocolate?

It seems the doll is being judged as far worse at the moment.
Out of sight, out of mind I guess.

@gotspoiler
Virtue signalling? Read my post again. It was about the "I can't be racist because of abc. So I should be applauded for my great work and that can't make me racist"

My sister had one in the 60's, she adored it and consequently they now remind me of her. I didn't even realise it was a black man, when I was little, I thought it was just a colour of the funny little thing, like smurfs are blue, not actually a real representation of anyone. I was upset when I found out.

I now have a little ornament which I keep in a cupboard, I'm aware they're offensive and I don't want to offend anyone but I love it, it reminds me of my sisters much loved toy, I had a great childhood and don't want to forget it. I hide it as I'd hate to offend anyone, not that anyone comes to my house anyway.

I'm not racist, I'm not very sociable with anyone, black or white, lol!

You can buy Harley Quinn and Wonder Woman dolls. One doll has it's history rooted in domestic violence the other has it's history in BDSM. Where is the outrage there?

I LOVED my gollywog when I was little, never dreamed it would become such a issue!!

We had one, knitted in the 50s by a lovely aunt, probably from a pattern in Woman's Weekly or some such.
No connotations of racism at all. I don't think it ever even occurred to us. I never heard a racist word from either parent, and they were of an era where it was common - born 1916 and 1918.

What if you own a golliwog but you decide, like right now, to throw it away? Are you then not a racist?

So let me get this right, I have golly pin badges given to me from my great Aunt who passed away many years ago, that remind me of memories I have of child hood where jam was a luxury for us and other things. Never associated them with people so was never said in reference to name call someone. They are in a bag with a collection of other 100's of pin badges that I collect like sad zap in the cupboard which makes what a closet racist unless I throw them out.

Obviously I live in an ignorant bubble as never cotton onto that about Disney, should I dispose of films as well? Which I still have on VHS

Are we really saying that risking offending somebody by owning an old toy, is worse than contributing to the ongoing trauma of people in sweatshops, just because you don't have to see the people who suffer before you buy your phone/clothes/chocolate?

Hurting (male) feelings is the worstest crime ever nowadays. Never mind about actual physical harm done mostly to women. No one cares about that.

You can buy Harley Quinn and Wonder Woman dolls. One doll has it's history rooted in domestic violence the other has it's history in BDSM. Where is the outrage there?

Wonder Woman has a history in BDSM? Interesting, do tell me more.

You are making a solid argument for boycotting Nestle (they still are shit, and I do boycott them) and misogynist products, but not a really convincing one for ... well I am not sure what you are arguing for. Haven't read the whole thread, but surely no one is demanding that people throw away their beloved childhood toys?

At the end of the day if you dig deep enough into the background of any toy you will find something that offends someone.

Same as with the confederate statue situation we can't bleach history. Because that's how history repeats itself

VestalVirgin this is about golliwogs not patriarchy, sexism or any other feminist crap

WW does indeed have a BDSM history, google it

How can a golliwog be a depiction of a black person?! Seriously, how many black people have you seen who resemble a golly? That's the point of the gollywog. They were meant to represent black people from the way the people interpreted it. It's not meant to look like a real black person because that would make them look more human with just a different skin colour. You would think any normal human being in this day and age would understand this and the history of it.