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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To assume someone who has a gollywog from childhood is racist?

370 replies

InigoTaran · 19/08/2017 00:05

Me and my partner are currently having a discussion about this and he wants to know whether it's true that black people associate gollywogs with racism...?

OP posts:

BertrandRussell · 19/08/2017 06:52

That's a new one! "I can't be racist- my siste's a lesbian"!

All the Mumsnet racists seem to have much more diverse families and social circles than most other people. They are always saying things like "all my black friends" and "my sister's black girlfriend" and even "I'm mixed race myself"

It's amazing.......

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 19/08/2017 07:03

I didn't say I wasn't racist!
I'm as racist as any other white person in a white supremacist society.
Fwiw I was quite happy to see the back of that photo, although I probably wouldn't have gone to the effort of rifling through the album looking for it.

Timmytoo · 19/08/2017 07:08

I have four. I'm not racist I just loved the look of them and wanted them when I was a child and in fact they were made by Africans. It didn't occur to to think of them as anything else. I will always have them along with my hundreds of other dolls, a couple which are also brown.

BertrandRussell · 19/08/2017 07:09

"I have four. I'm not racist"

Yes you are.

Veterinari · 19/08/2017 07:21

I recently saw Holli wigs for sale and was pretty surprised but the store owner had laminated this article and put it alongside the display. It still made me feel uncomfortable but I think the argument is a reasonable one.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/27/grandmother-defies-convention-to-sell-golly-dolls-in-effort-to-r/

Veterinari · 19/08/2017 07:21

golliwogs

MrsDustyBusty · 19/08/2017 07:26

I just loved the look of them

Hey, I'm no racist. I just happen to collect caricatures which were intended as grotesque and demeaning representations of black people. I just like that kind of thing. What could possibly be racist about it?

BertrandRussell · 19/08/2017 07:28

Veterinari- yep, black people can be stupid and insensitive too. Who knew?

missmollyhadadolly · 19/08/2017 07:28

in fact they were made by Africans.

That's a new one. Don't know whether to or 😂

Timmytoo · 19/08/2017 07:32

Actually they were Missmolly as I live in South Africa and my mom got one for me from an African stall and the AFRICAN lady was busy sewing them!

rubybleu · 19/08/2017 07:33

Golliwog biscuits were around in Australia til the late 2000s. We were given them fairly often in our lunch box. I don't think we turned out to be racist.

There are so many things that you look back on and are slightly horrified by from childhood. Fortunately times and attitudes have moved on.

To the poster above - Aboriginals really aren't referred to as wogs. That's a not-very-nice term for post war European and later Levantine/Balkan immigrants. Australians have plenty of derogatory terms for Aboriginals but that's not one of them. The Macquarie Dictionary can set you straight if you don't believe me

BertrandRussell · 19/08/2017 07:36

Jesus- you had gollywogs in South Africa!!!!

It sounds like a novel by Tom Sharp!

Timmytoo · 19/08/2017 07:38

Actually I'm not Bertrand!! I see them as just dolls, I never even knew their history before this thread tbh. Don't tell me I'm racist when you don't even know me. In fact I probably do more for black people than you will ever do, considering I live in Africa and I'm always helping with food or money, I also donate to a school and I support quite a few charities aimed at helping poor people in townships. Why the shit will I do that if I were racist. So before you judge others know their situation or you make yourself look like a fool!!

MrsDustyBusty · 19/08/2017 07:55

Actually they were Missmolly as I live in South Africa and my mom got one for me from an African stall and the AFRICAN lady was busy sewing them!

You don't have to be thick...

How are there people like this alive today?

rhodanunn · 19/08/2017 07:57

"Do more for black people than you will every do". "Always helping with food or money".

Plenty of people do these on the one hand whilst on the other, perpetuate the idea of natural inferiority of black people that predispose them to requiring food and money. You might not be doing that actively, but you are by failing to understand that a gollywog is not a romantic facet of your childhood and that alone, but a symbol of grotesque anti-black caricature. They were originally drawn with paws instead of hands, for fucks sake.

cowgirlsareforever · 19/08/2017 08:04

I've never had a golliwog nor would I ever have wanted one. I think they are best consigned to the dustbin as they are clearly offensive.
My dsis did have a black doll when we were little and boy did I covet her! I thought she was beautiful but my dsis never let me anywhere near her!

Timmytoo · 19/08/2017 08:13

Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls were symbols of anti vaccination as they were the iconic symbol for vaccine induced injury and death, so that means you must be against vaccinations if you have one from your childhood 🙄

Capricorn76 · 19/08/2017 08:15

Do we have to have one of these threads every six months? Does an alarm sound where someone deciding to do some 'concern trolling' has to log on and start a 'debate' about golliwogs? It's so frikken boring.

Timmytoo · 19/08/2017 08:21

😂😂😂 Capricorn, yes, I think you're right, in about two days we will be getting the debate on breast feeding, earrings on babies, goats and SAHM vs WOHM. It's a cycle that goes round and round like the wheels on the bus song 🚌. At least Greggs and fruit shoots seems to have wavered a bit.

Veterinari · 19/08/2017 08:25

I guess the interpretation lies in the origin of the dolls - if as the article says they were originally made by west African mothers as toys for their own children then no they are not inherently racist, but became a symbol of racism after cultural appropriation in the 1960s

Veterinari- yep, black people can be stupid and insensitive too. Who knew?

I'm sure they can, people are people. But as a white person with white privilege I don't feel that it's my place to tell black people how they should feel (or that they should all feel the same way!) about a symbol of their own racial heritage. Clearly there are divergent views within the black community.

A friend of mine has mixed heritage - she hated the term mixed heritage or mixed race (says it reminds her of mixed veg!) and calls herself half-caste or coloured - she doesn't apply those terms more generally to others as she knows they can cause offence, but that is how she chooses to identify herself. As far as I'm concerned how she chooses to feel is her own business - I suspect it's the same for golliwogs.

BertrandRussell · 19/08/2017 08:26

Really. Timmy? You've read other threads on the subject of gollywogs?

Timmytoo · 19/08/2017 08:32

Yikes Bertrand, wipe the chip off or Walkers are going to have some competition there!

When did I say I read other threads about Golliwogs?

MrsDustyBusty · 19/08/2017 08:35

It's very interesting, how the cultural tide has turned lately. I'm pretty sure there was a lower proportion of gollywog fans per thread in the past than there are now in these trumpy, alt right, brexit days.

TestTubeTeen · 19/08/2017 08:37

I have some old Robertson's badges, they exist, they are of their time, but I now recognise the deeply racist roots of the 'golly' as an icon and would not dream of wearing these badges.

And if I still owned the (beloved) knitted golly that my grandmother had sitting in her hall I would not display it, or make a point of insisting on displaying it.