To assume someone who has a gollywog from childhood is racist?

[InigoTaran]

Me and my partner are currently having a discussion about this and he wants to know whether it's true that black people associate gollywogs with racism...?

How ridiculous. If I buy an Iron Man toy for my DC, given that Iron man are owned by Marvel and Marvel are owned by Disney, is that racist given Disney's history?

I'm shocked that people think that just because as children they didn't recognise Hollywood as being racist caricatures that means they're not offensive.

No, they don't look like black people, they don't really look like people at all. That's the point, I think. Dehumanising black people.

If you played with Hollywood as a child and didn't turn out racist that doesn't make they're existence OK. You don't have to feel bad that you innocently played with a toy not understanding its connotations but that doesn't mean they don't exist or don't matter.

If you buy Hollywood as an adult knowing what they are, why do you want to own something so offensive to so many people?

I think these days of Hollywood have a place at all it's in a museum.

Aaarrgh should have proof read. Autocorrect doesn't like the word gollywogs.

and Timmytoo you sound like a very good person, keep it up and don't let these crazies tell you otherwise

I had a gollywog as a small child in the mid 70s and tbh didn't associate it with black people because it obviously looked nothing like an actual human. Also I was a small child. It was got rid of when I was a bit older and realised what it was supposed to represent.

Different times and many people had different attitudes I'm afraid. I don't mean actively racist either, rather that people were sadly ignorant of what it meant and how it might be perceived. To think that someone who was a child 40 or 50 years ago was and still is a racist because of a toy they had in a time where attitudes were very different, is pushing it a bit imo. Especially as I'm afraid they were pretty common toys so I'd think a hell of a lot of people over the age of about 40 might've had one.

And I don't think they should still be available. They should be consigned to history - anyone who still thinks they're ok needs their head read.

I saw this on twitter the other day and this thread brought it to mind.

I had a golly as a 70s child, read Noddy books and collected Robinsons jam. I'm not naive enough to think that those and other influences will not have left me with some subconscious racism, but I will always try to recognise and fight against this.

These threads make me so sad that people are willing to fight for their rights to have racist toys.

I always associated them to jam, same jam that is my favourite from childhood. I have various pin badges of them passed on from my great aunt they still with rest of various collection of badges I have. My favourite is nurse one which reminds me of when my mum started nursing in era she used to wear white paper hat.

Thank you Gotspoiler, that means a lot to me as everyday I try my best to help others even if it's only in small ways sometimes.

Yes. I am sure the Africans are very grateful for your largesse......

I wouldn't collect them now but, as a child (am 55) I had the golly badges, collected from Robertsons Jam pots. The slogan I think, was "By Golly, it's good!" Never associated it with racism as a 5/6/7 year old.

Oh please

As I'm sure the sweatshirt unpaid workers from abroad are for you buying most of products in your home or clothes you wear on your back

No Bertrand I wasn't equating the golly with the baby doll, just musing that in 1950s Scotland my sister had (and still has) a perfectly normal (ie not a characature) black baby doll.

Yes. I am sure the Africans are very grateful for your largesse......

Well, yes, I am sure they are actually. Why put someones generosity down? It's a shitty thing to do

It's not racist to have owned and played with a gollywog as an innocent child. How is this difficult to understand? None of the "crazies" have positioned this to be the problem.

It is highly ignorant and almost beyond incredulous as an adult to try and divorce the history of gollywogs with black minstrelsy and other cultural methods of denigrating black people through racist stereotypin.

What, because you associate your childhood toy with your beloved Mum, your preferred brand of jam or that you yourself don't think it looks like a black person? How does this change the social history of this toy within the wider constructs of racism in the western world. Let alone that gollywog is still a slur used by racists. This is an emotive and sentimental washing over of the history of race relations to fit your own memories that you do not want tarnished. No one is asking for you to tarnish them, just have the understanding that the world you saw as a child, is not how it is as an adult. Just because you don't partake in the analysis of it, doesn't mean you are not contributing to it.

I am sure you are not "racist" in the abject sense that you hate black people or that the suffering of any black person in society is due to some natural predisposition because they are black. This dictionary definition of racism doesn't cut it - race relations are more nuanced than this and by denying the history of gollywogs, an insidious leaching of race as an adult concept from the adult world into childhood, is an apologist stance to take.

Yes, you are.

Utterly ridiculous assertion.

Not going to RTFT.

It's the name of it that's offensive, black people have often grown up being referred to as a golliwog. Would the people who are defending this innocent childhood toy still be defending it's if it was called a ngr doll ? Or something equally vile and racist.

What if you buy a Harley Quinn doll? Does that mean you are advocating domestic violence or are a DV apologist given Harley Quinn's background? What if you buy a Wonder Woman doll? Her history is rooted in BDSM

Barbies are pretty awful too. I never liked Barbie/Sindy dolls.

@rhodanunn Tell you what I will ask the father of my DS who is black opinion and let you know how he feels about them or will his not count because he too is from era associated with jam

Would the people who are defending this innocent childhood toy still be defending it's if it was called a ngr doll ? Or something equally vile and racist.

The sad thing is that yes, they probably would.

gotspoiler, that is moral relativist bullshit. Can you let me know what your benchmark is so I know what else cannot be commented or criticised. Racism obviously is too facetious an issue for you, after all is just a curly headed smiley doll that just so happened to appear into society devoid of any reference, of any attitude and of any other concept than "make a doll, make it dark coloured and put it in stripey trousers". I suppose I know plenty of black people without curly hair that can be quite frowny actually that have never been called a gollywog and are doing alright for themselves.

Feel free to start a thread about the extent of how certain cultural characters may romanticise and wash over issues you are perhaps concerned about.

I bet those that are offended by golliwogs would quite happily get their children watching a Disney film and conveniently forget Disney's racism in the past

Nothing like a gollywog thread to bring out all the black mumsnetters, white mumsnetters with black partners, white mumsnetters with hundreds of black friends, mumsnetters who live in Africa, mumsnetters with sisters with black lesbian partners.........

Oh, and mumsnetters who have appantly lived under stones since 1960.

My sister was called a 'wog' many times at school by shitty teens who likened her hair to a 'golliwogs'.
She was also called other racist names and it has hurt her deeply.

Gollys may originally have been considered to be harmless but they are not in these days & if I was OPs partner and didn't feel I could get rid of it then it would be hidden in a drawer.