AIBU to think SAHMs shouldn't put this nonsense on a CV/job application

[windygallows]

In the last year I've recruited for numerous part-time jobs, receiving applications from many women who took time out to be with family and are now returning to work.

Many of the applicants have been straightforward and simply noted on their CV that they have been SAHM - simple.

But increasingly applicants, perhaps based on some guidance from career counsellors or MN, are finding more creative ways to describe their absence from the workforce.

One, we'll call her Mrs Jones, wrote that for 10 years she was employed by the 'Jones family' and that her work involved 'organizing international travel for her family.' Because organizing a holiday is similar to the tasks led by senior executives.

Another wrote a list of every task she did at home from getting groceries to cleaning the house which, while impressive as an exhaustive list, doesn't really mean much when applying to an office-based role. Especially as it's basically a list of everything most employees have to fit in outside of work.

More galling are the claims that women make about the critical role they played - with my favourite being the one who 'Spent 7 years looking after my two children who needed and deserved my attention.'

There is huge value in the work that SAHMs do but please, please don't put this kind of waffle on your CV. You never know if your interview panel will consist of a FT working, single mom like me who finds it pretty insulting that working means her children apparently lost out on 'the attention they needed and deserved.' Urgh.

But please don't say it's nonsense that the skills gained by being a SAHP aren't gained by a WOHP (which was what this whole thread is about). You just do a bit more of it.

Actually I'm not sure this is true. I was a WOHP (in a demanding job) for 4 years and have recently become a SAHP. It's not just more of what I used to do on Fridays/weekends. It's all that, AND on my own (without DH), AND without getting the break from the DC/adult company that work used to provide, AND without being able to do family admin from my desk as I used to sometimes (I now have to do it with two pre schoolers around which is far harder), AND without a lunch break, AND without much chance to sit down.

I'm not saying full time SAHP is harder than WOHP (though for me it has been). But I do think it requires skills that being a WOHP doesn't. Patience and physical stamina in particular.

One is a negotiator after proving negotiating skills with her kids.
The other is an MD of a Hotel chain, she started off as manager of a single hotel as she had experience in all departments from being a sahm.

Good lord, if this is really true, those are two irresponsible employers. I strongly suspect this is at best half true. What kind of maniac would give a completely inexperienced person the massively demanding job of managing a hotel without relevant WORK experience?

And negotiating professionally, either commercially or legally, is NOT like negotiating bedtime with a child. It just isn't.

gilly working parents are still responsible 24 hours a day.

They know what it takes to get kids to school, organise uniforms, do packed lunches etc.

Of course working parents know all thay stuff. Do you think all working parents have staff?

Besides which, its not relevant in the work place as experience.

Another perspective: I've been freelancing for 10 years, I wouldn't put diary management, cash-flow projections and ongoing IT maintenance on my CV even though it's part of the business of working freelance if I was applying for a job as, well, anything really.

You tailor your CV to the role and unless the role you're applying for has caring responsiblities, your experience as a carer has no place on your CV.

Nicely dismissive there Gilly.

It would be nice in many ways to only be responsible for my children and home for a couple of hours a night, but it sure as hell ain't reality.

how do you prove "negotiating skills with your kids"?

I guess it might go on the lines of

"give a recent example where you used negotiating skills"
"I successfully managed to persuade my child that he should eat the green salad and grilled chicken instead of the nuggets and chips".

but all parents do this unless they literally hand over to a nanny 24/7.

if you only do those things from 6 pm onwards you dont gain those skills?

" career break, young children" is fine
or "career break, plus volunteer on PTA, treasurer for xxx charity, organizing annual charity event, raised 100k for school thru organizing xxx, etc...DBS cleared for voluntary work with girl guides, etc.

Gilly can you answer a direct question?

I am a lone parent

I have a home and 3 kids

can you tell me who looks after all that 20/5 given I only put in a few hours a day and weekends?

"Working parents don't know because erm .... they don't do it.
Being responsible for kids 24/7 and family, house etc is not the same as putting in a couple of hours at night."

Lots of working parents work part time or, like me, work around children. I do almost half my hours remotely once the kids are in bed! My son sees as much of me as he would if I was a SAHp. I do every school drop off and pick up. So yes, I do have a pretty good idea!

it's already something of a risk, in many cases, to employ someone who's been out of the workforce for several years

Possibly, but to be pedantic a risk is not the same as an issue. I took on someone last year who had been out of work for over 2 years due to ill health. He was also going to need additional support due to ongoing health issues. Aside from that he was one of the top 3 candidates and I was able to satisfy myself that whilst some of his relevant skills might be a little bit rusty we could get him back up to speed quickly enough. He got to interview because his CV was clear and concise and gave me enough to believe he might be a good fit. He got the job because at interview I was impressed by his personality, managed to close out a few possible problems and, of the three candidates, I believed he would fit best within our organisational culture. It would have been immoral of me to bin him off from the get go just because he'd had the misfortune of being ill. I have the same view of SAHPs or anyone else that's had an extended gap in their career for legitimate reasons. All I ask of them is to read and understand the role, highlight to me in their CV their skills and experience that make them a suitable candidate and don't make my job harder than it has to be by obscuring all the good, relevant stuff with irrelevant details. Do that and chances are they'll get an interview.

Really gillybeanz and jacqueshammer? As a wohm I would wager there's not a single task that a sahm does that I don't/haven't done in the care of my own child. You might do it more hours per week but I still do it.

I had to select appropriate childcare providers and come to suitable agreements with them, but I don't put "tendering and negotiating of outsourcing contracts" on my cv because of it.

I'm finding it hard to breath from laughing that someone obtained a job where negotiating skills were important and she used 'negotiating with her children' as her experience [snort]

I personally think raising children is the most important job in the world, and a woman choosing to do that makes an important sacrifice that society benefits from in the long term

Please can you explain how society will benefit from your child in the long term more than mine or any other working mothers? I'd really like to know.

My daughter is at uni with a girl whose mum didn't work. I think they would both like to know how one benefits society more because her mother didn't work than the other, in fact I think they'd both be all ears.

I'd also like to say this thread is about enabling women back into the work place and eradicating poorly written cvs only.

I disagree, there are lots of skills a person can gain being a sahm but unfortunately as usual working women have to turn it into a battle.

I have been my dh PA for 25 years, sometimes paid and official other times without pay.
I know other women who have done exactly the same as me and not been paid, I wonder which would be sneered at during an interview for a PA job.

As for wohm doing the same as a sahm they'd have to be Barbapapa to reach from their desk to home to care for their children at the same time as working.

I work pt and don't do half as much as when I was a sahm, there isn't the time and I can't be in two places at the same time, obviously some wohm are super woman or time travellers.

Sorry but if they are on interview panels they have worked hard on their careers and unlikely to know what a sahm does, two totally different roles
Working parents don't know because erm .... they don't do it.
Being responsible for kids 24/7 and family, house etc is not the same as putting in a couple of hours at night.

This will get deleted, but fuck you. Seriously.

Which part of "you might do it more hours per week but I still do it" did you not understand gillybeanz

It makes me cringe to see some employers (presumably so called professionals) not giving a chance to a good candidate because she has made the decision to be with her family for a while and that was important to her.

Can I be completely clear that I did not say this and nor do I think this. When I am recruiting, I have no opinion at all on other people's decisions about how and when they look after their family. I do not think that staying at home with your child/ren for a while is a negative thing when you want to return to employment.

When I am recruiting all I want to see is evidence that you can do the job that I am recruiting for - do you have good customer service skills? Have you managed a team before? Are your whosit creation skills better than the other candidate?

I also want to see a clear work history, depending on the level - some clear indications that you're not going to duck out after a short while. A CV that goes 'temp job, temp job, permanent job for three years, permanent job for 5 years, career break to care for family member, temp job' says that to me just fine, I don't really care that you were home, I just want to know that you're not a job hopper.

that's a not then !

it's not turning it into a battle to point out we do the same things - it's called parenting

I have application forms in the past that have asked for detailed examples from say 'the last 3 years' that show you have X skill.If you have been a SAHM, you have to use the skills involved in doing this job.
So it is a bit unreasonable to say you can't mention any of this

I disagree, there are lots of skills a person can gain being a sahm but unfortunately as usual working women have to turn it into a battle.

No, there are lots of skills a person can gain as a parent. The SAHM part is irrelevant. It's all about quality rather than quantity, and whether you can apply them to the working world and the job for which you are applying.

I have been my dh PA for 25 years, sometimes paid and official other times without pay. I know other women who have done exactly the same as me and not been paid, I wonder which would be sneered at during an interview for a PA job.

Neither, assuming they could show how their skills were relevant. Employers don't ask to see your previous wage slips at interview.

As the OP I just want to stress that I wasn't trying to denigrate the work of SAHM, merely suggesting that it's best to be professional and keep it concise on a CV, not to elaborate. People have taking my post and found immediate offense through leaps of logic.

And for those who suggest I have a chip on my shoulder that's just not the case. I love working and my children have thrived in daycare but I don't need someone in a recruitment situation to suggest in a CV that their decisions about parenting were preferable.

If I have a prejudice about anything it's that as a single mom I have no choise but to work and I don't have the luxury of staying home and having a man financially facilitate my life.... but if you were doing it all yourself you'd understand.

I wonder which would be sneered at during an interview for a PA job

No one is sneering about the choices people make. The issue being discussed is how to detail it appropriately on a good cv.

"I have application forms in the past that have asked for detailed examples from say 'the last 3 years' that show you have X skill.If you have been a SAHM, you have to use the skills involved in doing this job*

Only if relevant, if not then go back further than the three years and explain how you have the skills from previous paid roles. Stating you've strong negotiating skills because your kid ate their greens isn't going to help you get the job. It's really not. However saying uou excelled in negotiating in previous roles, even if outwith the timeframe, will. It's really common sense.

statistically

Absolutely YES to everything you've said.

No, there are lots of skills a person can gain as a parent. The SAHM part is irrelevant. It's all about quality rather than quantity, and whether you can apply them to the working world and the job for which you are applying.

No quantity is a factor too, actual amount of time spent doing something you may not actually have chosen to do, but have to for financial reasons, long stretches with small children are often harder than short stretches when you have had time away, using your skill set, having adult conversations etc.

There are prod and cons in both directions - don't dismiss and diminish other people's experience because it is not the same as your.

Gosh OP, a few of my friends did this and now have very senior roles.

What, said all the things the OP mentions in their applications when they returned to work? I expect they must have been truly excellent candidates, if they handed in CVs like that and got back into the workplace at a high level anyway. For mere mortals, there are much more sensible and optimum ways to present time spent engaged in caring responsibilities.

Possibly, but to be pedantic a risk is not the same as an issue.

No, of course not. A SAHP could well turn out to be the best person for the job and blow the other candidates away. But hiring someone is always a risk, because it involves making a high-stakes decision on very limited information. If two candidates have literally identical experience, except one of them has been out of the workforce for five years and one is currently employed, then the one who is currently employed is somewhat less of a risk, because I have more up to date information on their work performance and skills and how they would likely perform if I hired them. That doesn't trump everything obvs, but employers naturally want to minimise risk. And SAHPs can reduce this risk by showing that they've done something to update/demonstrate their skills recently like do a course in [x programme] or volunteer as social media coordinator for a charity or whatever.

Personally, I've said what I've said on this thread because I want people trying to re-enter the workforce to understand the employer's perspective as well as possible, so they can put their best foot forward and make the transition a success.