AIBU to think SAHMs shouldn't put this nonsense on a CV/job application

[windygallows]

In the last year I've recruited for numerous part-time jobs, receiving applications from many women who took time out to be with family and are now returning to work.

Many of the applicants have been straightforward and simply noted on their CV that they have been SAHM - simple.

But increasingly applicants, perhaps based on some guidance from career counsellors or MN, are finding more creative ways to describe their absence from the workforce.

One, we'll call her Mrs Jones, wrote that for 10 years she was employed by the 'Jones family' and that her work involved 'organizing international travel for her family.' Because organizing a holiday is similar to the tasks led by senior executives.

Another wrote a list of every task she did at home from getting groceries to cleaning the house which, while impressive as an exhaustive list, doesn't really mean much when applying to an office-based role. Especially as it's basically a list of everything most employees have to fit in outside of work.

More galling are the claims that women make about the critical role they played - with my favourite being the one who 'Spent 7 years looking after my two children who needed and deserved my attention.'

There is huge value in the work that SAHMs do but please, please don't put this kind of waffle on your CV. You never know if your interview panel will consist of a FT working, single mom like me who finds it pretty insulting that working means her children apparently lost out on 'the attention they needed and deserved.' Urgh.

As I said Maisy, childcare is not simply about "tasks". It's about time. My time is as real as yours.

It makes no difference that I don't get paid for my time. I know what I'm doing and so do my DC.

Somebody has to respond to the DC in real time - minute-to-minute. Children are not a set of "tasks". Housework, cooking etc has nothing to to with it.

The point is that if a sahm is looking for employment, the tasks are what matters for a cv rather than the time.

Yes well I would never try and claim that any "tasks" I do are relevant to most jobs (except maybe jobs with DC where it helps to have had your own)?
For me it's about the time and the being there. No more. I think it's a shame that so many people think that's not enough.

Of course it's enough if you're doing what you want to do and you're happy doing so.

It may not be enough if you're trying to get back into paid employment.

Other than that, just assume everyone is making the best choice they can make for their families, just like you are.

Wohp do , do the skills the sahp put on their cvs. Which is what we are talking about.

Cooking, washing, organising school uniform, arranging activities etc.

And yes it gets squashed into fewer hours.

I work. House is clean and tidy (ish). Clothes are washed, kids are fed, taken to school, taken to hobbies, holidays.

Name a job or skill that sahp do, that wohp dont.

And being a sahp is enough.

Its just not enough to land you a job after a long break.

Anyone who is out of work for a while will find it difficult to get back into. Unless that times been spent studying or gaining other skills.

As I said Maisy, childcare is not simply about "tasks". It's about time. My time is as real as yours
Ive not said your time isn't real.

I'm saying that being a SAHP and a childcare professional are different. Fact.

Just like many other posters have said millions of times, noone is saying people shouldn't stay home if it's right for them, but you have to accept that tasks performed in your own home are basic tasks of adult life and have no place on a CV. (I can't say I'm basically a chef for cooking my own meals )

Despite a number of SAHP on this thread saying the same advice about CV/application techniques, some SAHP are still intent on wallowing in this 'poor us. Nobody appreciates us. We do all this stuff that nobody else does'.

Well Maisy, I can't respond to that because those are not claims I would make.
When I became a SAHM, I was fully aware that it would impact my career, but that was the choice I made.
I know many SAHMs and none of them would put something like housework tasks on a CV . Tbh most of us have cleaners anyway.
If I was ever to return to work now, I would retrain. I would certainly not bother trying to make spurious claims to some bod on an interview panel.

Also I was a childcare professional (ed psych) in my "previous life" so I'm well aware of the differences!

turquesa
If you agree that childcare and SAHP are different then why try to argue that WAHP somehow don't do the same tasks as a SAHP because they don't do everything a childcare setting does? I don't get it.

Many people on this thread HAVE been doing the moping martyr thing and people HAVE been going on endlessly about how being a SAHP is so undervalued because people have dared to say that whilst it's up to people to make their choices, it is not relevant work experience for a job application.

Maisy - I'm not sure I understand your first point tbh. I am certainly not moping about anything. This whole thread has been based on some anecdotal evidence about some woman claiming that household duties are relevant to an interview. I very much doubt this is the case for most SAHMs returning to work.

Only I know how I've raised my 3 kids - how much time and energy I've put in to playing with them, educating them, socialising them and so on. I know how we've filled our days, but I don't for one minute expect anyone outside our family to care.

I said 'Many people on this thread HAVE been doing the moping martyr thing'. It does not say YOU are doing it.

You sound quite reasonable. You've made your choice, it suits your family and quite rightly you don't expect the world to come and congratulate you for it.

Others on this thread, instead of listening to the advice of 'keep some things off your applications', have gone on the moping defensive about how it all proves nobody values SAHM; how they do all this work and nobody cares; that they have all this relevant work experience from parenting etc. Then some have argued it's a travesty that a shortlister would ditch their CV if it prattles on about 'i couldnt possibly work because my chilsren needed my love and attention' because it obviously proves that nobody values SAHP and their hard work (when the reality is shortlister is trying to cut 150 applicants and people who fill their applications with irrelevant stuff don't get shortliated - parent or not).

I agree with Maisypops.

The issue is not about SAHM parents who are perfectly happy with their decision, it's the minority who bang on about not feeling valued. Yet when asked who isn't valuing them, and how, they don't seem to have a clear answer.

This same small minority are the martyrs who want us to applaud them for doing all the stuff which all good parents do... loving their children, talking to them, cooking for them, reading the same story for the zillionth time.

We all know parenting can be challenging, exhausting, etc etc as well as joyful and life affirming. Those things are common to all parents. Parenthood opened my eyes to things I hadn't previously felt, and I experienced things i hadn't had before, some of them amazing, some of them not so amazing (being woken up 5 times in the night springs to mind) but these things are the same whether you work or stay at home. It's becoming a parent which is the defining thing- you don't only get to experience those things if you're a SAHP!!

I've re-read the thread and honestly, pretty much every WOHM on here has consistently said 'not a problem to stay at home, but when you decide to re enter the world of work, this is the most effective way to do it.'

I'm not dismissing the fact that some SAHM feel undervalued... it's obviously a genuine problem which crops up regularly on MN. But imo they're off loading to the wrong crowd. If you're staying home through choice, then talk to your partner, re calibrate the partnership, get your partner to cut down their hours/do more housework/be more hands on with the kids. Don't just say 'oh but my partner couldn't possibly do that, he's got a high flying job' .... we all only get one life, why should one partner sacrifice their career for the other? (And equally why should the other partner sacrifice time at home and being with the children?)

For SAHM who aren't happy and aren't doing it through choice (if the family budget can't afford childcare for example) then I have more sympathy - it must be tough to be wanting to work but unable to do so. But again, the key thing is to keep an open dialogue with your partner and try to find ways of both achieving a good work/life balance as soon as possible. Things like spacing your children out, maximising use of free nursery hours can all help to mitigate a difficult situation. To those who can't work because they have a child with complex needs - huge sympathy. That must be really tough, and surely these are the parents most deserving of sympathy.

But to be frank, it isn't SAHM in those last two categories that seem to be the moaners - they recognise the issues but just get on with things.

Ironically, it's the ones who are SAHM by choice who seem to want the greatest approbation, as if we're all supposed to applaud them for something they want to be doing anyway. Very strange!

Everyone moans Babbity. How many times do we hear WOHMs "by choice" complain they would like more flexi hours or better pay - it's not fair...etc. Everyone needs to feel valued. Everyone exaggerates the truth too. You should have seen some of the waffle in my CV when I was out of uni .
It's unpleasant that this thread focuses on SAHMs in this respect. I'm sure the OP must have interviewed men with nonsense on their CVs which can be seen straight through. Yet this doesn't seem to hit a nerve with her. Maybe she should ask herself why?

I'd agree with the previous poster who said some are preaching to the choir here. If you feel undervalued in your role as a stay at home mum, deal with that with those who under value you.

Going on about how hard it is, how many skills you have, and how if belongs on a proffessional cv and if anyone disagrees it's because stay at home mothers are under valued is off the mark. Especially if you had rhe choice to work and didn't, even if you thought it was because your children deserved your time and society will benefit from your off spring in the decades to follow and not just because you didn't want to work.

I'm sure the OP must have interviewed men with nonsense on their CVs which can be seen straight through. Yet this doesn't seem to hit a nerve with her. Maybe she should ask herself why?
Because it's clearly a trend she has noticed with women returning from being SAHP rather than just 'there are some people who write irrelevant crap in applications'.

Plus, if a man wrote 'i need this promotion because im a high flier and the extra money would allow my wife to stay at home and we know that's best for the children' then people would hold the same view - comments about your parenting preferences are not for CVs.

turquesa maybe it's because finding employment is something men in general find easier, so she's happy to just say 'wanker, next please' when she meets one? But wanted to genuinely help women who are finding it hard to return after a break for dc?

Today 17:34 turquesa

'Everyone moans Babbity. How many times do we hear WOHMs "by choice" complain they would like more flexi hours or better pay - it's not fair...etc. Everyone needs to feel valued'

Honestly can't remember the last time someone started a thread in AIBU moaning about flexitime etc

There may well be threads discussing such issues in the employment section on here, but those would be people seeking advice about specific situations.

While I agree some people tend to be moaners, the fundamental issue I've raised several times on this thread (and still not really had straight answers to) is the complaining from a number of SAHM that they don't feel valued (and I agree it's a minority, not most)

Being a SAHM benefits you and your family only. Nothing wrong with that, if you can afford it and have a partner willing be sole earner. But surely the fact you are doing it for yourself and your family is the 'reward'? Where else would you expect to get approbation from? It's no one else's business. And while everyone wants to present them self in a positive light when it comes to job applications, a potential employer isn't going to give you extra brownie points for having been at home, which is why a factual acknowledgement, without all the fluffing up about 'CEO of the Jones family because my precious darlings deserved it,' is how you present it on your cv. Which takes us back to where this thread actually began!

Plus, if a man wrote 'i need this promotion because im a high flier and the extra money would allow my wife to stay at home and we know that's best for the children' then people would hold the same view

Actually, what I'd be thinking in this exact scenario is that a) it's not relevant to my interests (same as mummy-padding on CVs), b) that he might just be a bit of a misogynist, seeing as he seems so set on 'traditional' gender roles and c) that he's obviously lacking in judgment presenting such an odd argument to me, his female boss.

Exactly bossy.
People make whatever parenting arrangements suit their family.
Don't expect everyone to think you're awesome for sorting your home life like adults.
Keep parenting nonsense out of CV/applications.

Everyone needs to feel valued.

Yes. As a wohm i want to be valued by my employers/colleagues and my family. I dont exepct anyone else to value that i work and have kids.

So who should value a sahm? Its the family and if thats not happening, thats the issue. Employers wont value someone who doesnt work for them.

The op is not about 1 woman. She quoted one in particular. But its becoming a trend that sahm are doing, because thats the advice given. Many have said they have been given that advice.

I dont work in recruitmenr. But every year i am involved in recruitment for our department. And these CVs are becoming more common.

No one cares or mind if you have been out of work. But if your CV shows really bad judgment and professionalism, we wont take it any further. Even for entry level.

We do a full training course that is 6 weeks. We dont expect someone to come in at entry level having tons of experience. But a poor CV wont get a foot in the door. And thats goes for anyone, not just sahp.

There are far less sahd, tgerefore recruiters are far less likely to come across many sahd CVs.

Why do careers advisors give out this advice?

They're obviously not trained to help people get back in to work.

born no idea. But it seems they dont bother speaking to people who recruit. Because no recruiter would tell them its a good idea.

I have seen people advise it on here too. Not for a while, but i have seen it.

Maisy - you seem intent on equating "sorting your home" with parenting. Can you not see there is a huge difference?

I have been "at home" now for almost 10 years. When all the DC were preschool, ALL my time was spent with them. If I had been working during their waking hours, then obviously I would have done less parenting. That is the fact.

I have never financially provided for our family. DH has done that and that's parenting too.

Can people really not see that from a SAHM's perspective, women who work say 9-5 ish hours and then say that they do "everything" a SAHM does during the day is laughable. It really is a joke. How can you be doing direct parenting in the day if you are not there?

IfI was at work say 9-5, I would not be taking the kids to play with friends, sitting on the floor doing games, crafts whatever, dealing with tantrums, wiping bums and so on during THESE HOURS. Somebody else would have to be doing it.

I REPEAT once again, I am not talking about things like food shopping, cooking, laundry - I totally agree that these things need to get done whether you are working or not. These are tasks we all do all do not deserve special recognition.

If I was working of course I would still read to my kids and be the same kind of parent as I am now. I would just do less of it because I would be with them less. If you were home all day you would realise there is a difference. I feel like I'm stating the obvious here.

It's not about being a better parent. You could be at home all day with depression or something and do the bare minimum with your kids. Quality of parenting is not the same as quantity, but if you work a 40 hour week the quantity of parenting you do will necessarily be less than a SAHM. Why try and argue otherwise?

Some women feel compelled to be with their kids. They are not trying to be arrogant about being better parents. It is how they feel and they are being honest. Leaving my kids with someone else would have felt like losing an arm or something - though obviously I would have done so if needs must. How is saying that your instinct is to be with your kids any more of a judgement statement than someone saying they need to work for their sanity and self-esteem?

This is why these threads go round in circles.

I REPEAT once again, I am not talking about things like food shopping, cooking, laundry - I totally agree that these things need to get done whether you are working or not. These are tasks we all do all do not deserve special recognition

They are the things we are talking about that people put in their CV.

No one is disputing sahp do more hours childcare. But the 'skills' some sahp put in their cv are what everyone does.