AIBU to think SAHMs shouldn't put this nonsense on a CV/job application

[windygallows]

In the last year I've recruited for numerous part-time jobs, receiving applications from many women who took time out to be with family and are now returning to work.

Many of the applicants have been straightforward and simply noted on their CV that they have been SAHM - simple.

But increasingly applicants, perhaps based on some guidance from career counsellors or MN, are finding more creative ways to describe their absence from the workforce.

One, we'll call her Mrs Jones, wrote that for 10 years she was employed by the 'Jones family' and that her work involved 'organizing international travel for her family.' Because organizing a holiday is similar to the tasks led by senior executives.

Another wrote a list of every task she did at home from getting groceries to cleaning the house which, while impressive as an exhaustive list, doesn't really mean much when applying to an office-based role. Especially as it's basically a list of everything most employees have to fit in outside of work.

More galling are the claims that women make about the critical role they played - with my favourite being the one who 'Spent 7 years looking after my two children who needed and deserved my attention.'

There is huge value in the work that SAHMs do but please, please don't put this kind of waffle on your CV. You never know if your interview panel will consist of a FT working, single mom like me who finds it pretty insulting that working means her children apparently lost out on 'the attention they needed and deserved.' Urgh.

Ive recruited hundreds of people and haven't ever seen this on a CV but if I did it would be binned. Irksome.

If you did extra things - like the fundraising example above - then I'd include it in the other section, or volunteering or similar.

i havent read the full thread but as a SAHM for 20 years who is now having to return to employment through no fault of my own i find your thread title and this please don't put this kind of waffle extremely degrading and offensive to women.

These women are trying to compete in a society where SAHM are not given the recognition they deserve - they are having to justify what they do all day to give their lifestyle choice some validation when lots of women see staying at home as a cop out or easy option. There is enough stigma and prejudice to SAHM without it coming at them when they are trying to return to the workforce.

as a FT working, single mom like me who finds it pretty insulting that working means her children apparently lost out on 'the attention they needed and deserved
Personally i think you have some issues with your own set up and perhaps have some guilt to deal with - maybe you have no choice but to work.

I came across this description of a SAHM - "a manager of my family and home" - this is the best description i have ever heard as this is exactly what we are -

other people have to list their duties - they dont just give a job title - we all know that a customer service assistant will deal with people maybe on telephone or face to face etc but you dont tell them not to include this "waffle" - infact you probably would discount them for not saying anything

@greenberet Why do sahms deserve recognition in the workplace? I do the same as a sahm plus go to work while my kids are at school. I do think feel they need special recognition that's very patronising

I've heard advisors recommending this to people it's ridiculous to write your day to day life down as if it's paid work experience because working parents do exactly the same around their jobs.

Obviously life experience is important but it can be explained in interview.
All people should put on their CV when there's a gap is - "Career break, taking care of family/travelling/etc".

^this
But if you have been a governor or something do include that

I work FT and am Manager of my family and home.

Doesn't need to go on, its twee and unnecessary. I'll always interview someone who has just a very simple to the point "career break to raise family" if they have other relevant skills and the CV is written well, if they put anything try-too-hard it turns it into a poorly written CV that just goes in the rejection pile.

I'm hugely in favour of families doing whatever works best for them and their situation; work full time, part time, SAHP, whatever, nobody else's business.

This kind of crap on a CV, though, would piss me off royally. I wouldn't take it as an insult to my decision to work, I would take it as an insult to my intelligence and professional capacity.

Completely agree with PPs that a much better approach is to do some volunteering or something as you get ready to return to work, and then talk about that instead. I know a couple of women who took over running the baby and toddler groups (volunteers) as they were getting ready to job-hunt, so they can talk about that. Brilliant stuff.

You are not being unreasonable at all. If you have managed to become really good at something during your career break then, as PP have said, put it in the "about me" section and specify. "During my time at home I took on-line courses in Excel and became really good at it" (obv word it better. I can't write CV-speak in English. :P)

In The Lives and Loves of a She-Devil Roseanne Barr's character helps women articulate what they're good at and use it when applying for jobs, but they're not putting it as work experience IIRC - I wonder if the idea started there? Undoubtedly you can pick up a lot of skills when SAH, but it isn't work experience, since that's used for career experience that can be verified via references.

I think my prejudice is that I've worked FT throughout the 11 years I've had children (with exception of mat leave) so find it a bit irritating when women make claims on their CV about how their children couldn't be without them or at interview explaining how they just couldn't put their children in daycare.

So the problem is actually that whopping great big chip you are carrying around on your shoulder.

That's pretty obviously a silly interpretation of what OP said. Surely it's just common sense: if you put that sort of thing on your CV or say it in your interview, you are impliedly criticising people currently in the organisation who have made different choices, possibly including the people reading the application or interviewing you, or their partners. If you don't have enough basic awareness to work out that that really isn't a clever thing to do, the chances are you're not going to fit into that organisation and automatically mess up your chances. It's good advice to tell people not to go down this route.

As a SAHM about to return to work, that stuff is cringey as fuck and I'd assume they'd lost their damn minds.

"Spent 7 years looking after my two children who needed and deserved my attention" would go in the "Sanctimonious Twat" bin.

Honestly, it comes down to "Would a man put this on his CV?" You don't get men doing all the "I was a fluffy Daddykins for my baby-wabies because my princesses deserve only the best" bullshit because they know full-well a CV is not the place for it. And honestly, I've had CV advice and no one has said "Embellish this bit, definitely play up what a motherly goddess you are." "Career break" is more than sufficient. Do not state your parental status.

I have been a SAHM for almost 17 years. We have 5 children and as of September, they will all be school aged. We home educate the youngest 3 so I'm pretty busy and have gained lots of skills that are very valuable to my family but would not be at all relevant to a work place.

The biggest issue is that none of the stuff that I do is assessed by anyone. So yes, I care for children, cook, clean, garden, decorate, teach etc but there is no one to say that I am any good at it other than my husband! You need references to back up your claims of what you say you can do well.

I am proud of the role I have. I wouldn't have chosen anything else for our family but to call it a job is ridiculous. I support my Husband's job and that pays our bills so it is worthwhile, but only to us. You also can't compare caring for your own children with caring for other children. Or cleaning your own house with cleaning professionally.

My SIL has been given this terrible advice. A lovely girl, but she is barely literate and has been a single parent, on benefits for the past 7 years. Instead of suggesting an English and maths course or volunteering, she has been told to list skills and experience such as catering and tutoring in place of cooking tea and helping with homework. I cringe when she tells me.

I wish there was more support for people returning to work. I would like to start working in the evenings. I have my sights set low and would quite happily stack supermarket shelves or clean but I can't get anything. It does seem that I've been written off which is a shame. I do still have something to offer.

Employers need to stop asking about it if they want women to stop talking about it.

I went for three job interviews recently. All of them asked about my chhildcare arrangements and one even asked how my partner would feel about me getting a job!

As he doesn't live with me it's none of his fucking business what job I do, but of course in an interview when you're trying to come across as friendly and non-confrontational I couldn't really say "you're not supposed to ask me that", "I'm not willing to discuss that" or "I don't see how that impacts on my ability to do the job" as it would not be met well by the twatty alpha male interviewer.

As a mum returning to work you're already at a disadvantage and anything that can make an employer see that you've got some actual abilities, not just snot wiping and toilet training, seems like a good idea. I agree that pissing off working mums in the process is a bad move, but listing skills like budgeting and organisation seems like common sense because not all men employers will equate SAHM with anything valuable.

I am more outraged that a poster up thread was told to tell potential interviewees that her children were her weakness. That's appalling.

SAHM should be proud enough of their role to be honest about it. Confine it to a single line on their CV and don't add any unnecessary embellishments. As an employer, I am looking to see if you have the right skills and experience to be a part of my team. Your parenting skills aren't relevant to that.

"please don't put this kind of waffle extremely degrading and offensive to women."

No, it's the opposite. It is degrading and offensive to tell women they need to put "bum wiping and dish-washing" on a CV, guaranteeing them a place in the bin. You put your workplace skills. If you don't have any, get some. No man would list his ability to use a washing machine on a CV for financial project manager and nor should any woman. We are ALL better than that. We should not turn our CVs into pathetic grovelling.

I think my prejudice is that I've worked FT throughout the 11 years I've had children (with exception of mat leave) so find it a bit irritating when women make claims on their CV about how their children couldn't be without them

Maybe their children couldn't?

I don't think you're wrong to be irritated, I think you'd be wrong to discount CVs on this basis or allow your prejudice to prevent you from hiring a person.

How about looking at it this way?

Your CV is your chance to display your relevant skills and aptitudes to an employer. You get two sides of A4, most of which is already taken with stuff you have to have on there like degrees and things.

You've got the job desc and the person spec in front of you. Your SAHP background is not relevant to the role. Why are you wasting space that you could be using to sell yourself?

I'm with greenberet. It like women only have validation if they work outside the home, ie, do work equivalent to men. The title of this thread is very offensive. I personally think raising children is the most important job in the world, and a woman choosing to do that makes an important sacrifice that society benefits from in the long term, not that other work is not also important, but please stop disdaining women for their choices.

If a woman putting the fact that she has spent time raising children is seen as 'cringey' then I find that a misogynistic attitude. Everything women do is undervalued. Men should act like men in order to get ahead, do work like men in order to have it valued. Well fuck off with that. What's next? Maternity leave seen as 'cringey'?

"Employers need to stop asking about it if they want women to stop talking about it.

I went for three job interviews recently. All of them asked about my chhildcare arrangements and one even asked how my partner would feel about me getting a job! "

Complain. It's illegal.

I would send that shit Twitter-viral if it happened to me, and frankly would walk out of an interview if someone asked me 'how my partner would feel'. It is grossly offensive.

*women should act like men

I just wrote career break on my CV.

As an interviewer, I'd also be uninterested in a list of things that I have to do when I'm not working. I would only be interested in previous work experience but happy to see brief reason why you weren't working - from staying at him with kids to sailing around the world.

In competency based interviews, we ask people to consider all of their experience in giving examples so you would have the opportunity to say something that's not necessarily 'work' experience, so it could be something from university, working or when looking after children. So lots of opportunity for someone to demonstrate skills not in the workplace but on the actual CV, I'd be more factual and say career break.

The person who wrote about the funding issue being sorted out (can't now look back to check the exact example) is something I'd be happy to see, but I'd list this type of thing under 'Achievements' rather than under a pretend job title. And it's exactly the thing I'd ask about because it would show amazing things like perservance and getting the job done. And it would be a fantastic example to give in the competency based interviews I do.

Maybe their children couldn't?

True - but I don't care that people were not engaged in paid work because they were caring, and I don't need to know the reasons why.

I really don't - lots of people are SAHPs for a while, it's whatever works for their family. The reason for your career break doesn't need to be on your CV, it just needs noting that it was there to explain the gap.

Honestly, it comes down to "Would a man put this on his CV?" You don't get men doing all the "I was a fluffy Daddykins for my baby-wabies because my princesses deserve only the best" bullshit because they know full-well a CV is not the place for it.

I'm with you on most of what you say, but this is not really fair. A man would not put it on his CV because he almost certainly hasn't been the one to take a career break if that was decided, and he almost certainly isn't the one who is expected to be the default parent once he's back in work.

Not saying SAHDs don't have plenty of rubbish to deal with, of course they have, but when the vast majority of part time and SAH parents are women, you can't make a like-for-like comparison.

"If a woman putting the fact that she has spent time raising children is seen as 'cringey' then I find that a misogynistic attitude."

Putting "career break" is fine. Putting "career gap for family reasons" is fine.

Banging on about how you 'made a sacrifice' and 'sing the best Baa Baa Black Sheep' and 'organised international travel' is cringey. Many fathers do this. Many grandparents do this. Many working parents do this. They don't put it on CVs. A CV is not the place for you to bang on about your 'sacrifice' for the 'greatest job in the world'.

OP I agree that the examples you've given are inappropriate for a CV. I'm glad that you recognise the value of the returning-to-work women that you've employed.

Please consider that the women who write such misguided CVs are likely nervous about returning to the work place and probably feel as though they're going to make mistakes and people will laugh at them. Don't be that person.