AIBU to think SAHMs shouldn't put this nonsense on a CV/job application

[windygallows]

In the last year I've recruited for numerous part-time jobs, receiving applications from many women who took time out to be with family and are now returning to work.

Many of the applicants have been straightforward and simply noted on their CV that they have been SAHM - simple.

But increasingly applicants, perhaps based on some guidance from career counsellors or MN, are finding more creative ways to describe their absence from the workforce.

One, we'll call her Mrs Jones, wrote that for 10 years she was employed by the 'Jones family' and that her work involved 'organizing international travel for her family.' Because organizing a holiday is similar to the tasks led by senior executives.

Another wrote a list of every task she did at home from getting groceries to cleaning the house which, while impressive as an exhaustive list, doesn't really mean much when applying to an office-based role. Especially as it's basically a list of everything most employees have to fit in outside of work.

More galling are the claims that women make about the critical role they played - with my favourite being the one who 'Spent 7 years looking after my two children who needed and deserved my attention.'

There is huge value in the work that SAHMs do but please, please don't put this kind of waffle on your CV. You never know if your interview panel will consist of a FT working, single mom like me who finds it pretty insulting that working means her children apparently lost out on 'the attention they needed and deserved.' Urgh.

so comparison and judgement is pretty fruitless.

The reason I was showing the comparisons/similarities in both tasks and time spend hands on parenting was because we're talking about CVs, and whether SAHPs do such drastically different parenting as a generalisation that it goes beyond the baseline of what everyone does, and therefore is remarkable enough to be included in a CV

That's the point of the whole thread.

Nevertwerk Everyone embellishes a CV. If you've heard about it, you know about it. If you know about it, you're an expert. If you're the Deputy Intergalactic Commander to your 3 year old boss, well....you forget the Deputy bit. Or say "Acting Intergalactic Commander"? Who's to know.....?

Good tip natalia

So following the rather bizarre logic that sahps do more parenting than wohps, does that mean as a lone parent I have done more parenting than anyone who has a co-parent? Including sahps?

Because I'd always just considered it meant I had more to do, and bigger stresses etc than someone with a partner, rather than proof I am a better parent. Didn't realise we can now rate our parenting skills based on whether you've shared basic day to day care or not. Go me.

Oh my.. i have actually read the full thread...!

I can't believe the flack the op had got with people reading into her words, things she didn't say. She got offended when people said quite offensive things about her life. That's nothing to do with feelings of 'guilt' or being uncomfortable with her own choices - its everything to do with the applicant being sanctimonious and out of touch.

The vast majority on here have agreed with her but there have been some vicious and snarly comments, sadly mainly from SAHMs and those who seem to have misread the posts (intentionally or not??) If you are happy with your choice, great but if you feel the need to denigrate those who have made other choices, i question your level of contentment with your own situation.

Lastly to those looking to get back to work. I don't recruit very often but did so recently and received some shocking CVs . A major issue for us was that we struggled to identify those who really wanted the job. Once you have set out how you meet the key criteria, i think it is important to show enthusiasm for the role, for the company. Tailor your CV & covering letter ( dont just copy/paste) and state clearly your destitute for the position. Someone who really wants the job is 10x more likely to try to make it work...

Of course there are variables. However, when people say they work "full time", they generally mean anything over 35 hours per week.
We had 3 DC and I was home with them all during the pre-school years. No family help or help from anyone else, except DH a bit at weekends. If I had been working, it's a simple fact that I would have done less childcare - 35 hours less or whatever. I don't see how there can be any argument about that.
It's not about "tasks" either. Yes we all make sure they have clean clothes, food in, etc. It's the relentlessness of "mummy, mummy" ALL THE TIME! Never walking out the door alone or having the headspace to think about anything else.
Being a WOHM has stresses of its own which I fully admit I can't appreciate because I've never been in that position. But if you have never been at home with your kids ALL the time - 7 days a week, from first thing in the morning until last thing at night, for years on end, then please don't pretend that you know what it's really like or that those swathes of time can be condensed into evenings. You really do not know what you're talking about.

Yes each option has its own stresses & trials. I work part-time - i enjoy my job but enjoy my time with the kids much more. It is intense but much less stressful than my work.

The key issue of this post though is that parenting skills whether they are learned from full-time care or from evenings, weekend, holidays, flexible working etc are, in the main, irrelevant to the workplace and should not be listed on a CV.

what I actually think is that many women don't want to be in the home full time because it's so relentless
Ding ding ding!! What do we have for her johnny??
Even IF I were in a position to be a sahm long-term, no thank you. Unless you have a very healthy relationship/high earning partner/back up plan/an outlet for your own goals and interests/a link to the outside world/some independence etc it can be a very unhealthy situation.
I witnessed my mother descend into insanity. It's not for everyone, or even most. So I'll give you that , i don't make any secret of the fact I could never do it.

Just an observation that men who work don't usually describe themselves as WOHD, they are "just " dads...

Turquesa Your post is not really relevant to the thread which is about SAHMs looking to become WOHMs. However, I'll bite anyway.

I don't see how there can be any argument about that.
Can you really not imagine any situation where a WOHP's hours might be different to those of their partner. Really? You absolutely cannot imagine that those 35 hours a week might be done at the weekend, or in the evening, or very early in the morning, or that one parent might work an early shift and the other a late shift?

The lack of understanding swings both ways too . Yes, it's difficult to provide 3 meals a day, wash up, do the laundry, do the household admin, make and attend appointments, shop for food and clothes, etc., etc. when you have children around under your feet all day. I'll tell you something though. It's no easier to cram all of those jobs into a couple of hours in the evening with children under your feet than it is to spread them out over a whole day. Personally, when I'm at work, work is what I am doing. Not having headspace to think about anything else and, because of my working hours, no time to be making appointments or shopping during my time away from home either.

Anyway, I'll leave it there as it's irrelevant to the thread.

So after 38 pages we have learned

• that people hiring/interviewing don't want SAHPs/carers to do anything more on cvs than say briefly why they've taken a work break
• that SAHPs thinking of reentering the workforce should think of volunteering, being on the PTA, retraining, whatever - and highlight that "I took a 5 year break to look after children but have recently ..."
• that SAHPs should save their time by investigating the job market and researching the field and companies they're applying to rather than doing a scatter gun approach

That there's a huge discrepancy between what we all do bringing up our children. Hats off to us all. For my part to SAHMs because I couldn't do it and to single parents doing it all and to working parents because it still means juggling and tough decisions - and to those parents who never see each other because child care is too expensive so they have to cover day and night shifts to cope.

. "What I actually think is that a lot of women don't want to be in the home full time because it can be just so relentless. "

And this sort of crap conveniently ignores the fact that very many of us could quite happily stay at home, our children don't bore us, we enjoy them, we're perfectly capable of being self sufficient (though as I've already said, housework doesn't exactly set me alight!) BUT we choose to work while raising our children because it adds another (not better, just another) dimension to our life.

If you're a SAHM - embrace it! Enjoy it! If you need to keep telling us that WOHM couldn't possibly manage it then frankly you need to question why you feel that way.

they are just dads
Yup. Cause men are allowed to be multi faceted human beings who don't stop having their own goals, dreams, and thoughts (that sometimes don't involve their kids 😱) when they become parents..without being made to feel like it's a big secret.

So what we've found out is:

• take whatever time at home you like. It's your choice for your family's situation. Your choice does not, however, make you a better or more dedicated parent.
• don't use CV/applications to make smug comments about your parenting choices (e.g being a stay at home parent allowed me to give my children the time and attention they truly deserve)
• use the person specifications and job descriptions go write application
• Tasks that are basic parts of life aren't really appropriate for an application because nobody carrs that you've managed your finances or cooked food.
• mentioning relevant volunteering or retraining is a good thing
• people telling you to keep a CV relevant isn't some kind of proof that 'nobody appreciates SAHP'. It's sensible advice that will help you get a job.

turquesa using that line of reasoning you don't know what you're talking about, because you had a dp supporting you financially, emotionally and sharing parenting. So you don't know about the relentlessness of parenting either because you haven't done everything alone if you want to play parenting top trumps.

You're also ignoring the fact the vast majority of wohp have annual leave and weekends etc spent with their dc, so we have experience of what a sahp does.

I wouldn't recommend PTA for parents grying to enter back in to the workplace. Its not really work done in a professional capacity and I know that if I see a CV with that type of work on i would not see it as serious work or that the applicany went out of their way to gain work experience in a professional setting.

I wouldn't recommend PTA
It always depends on the position, doesn't it?

Personally, I'd also not be particularly impressed with volunteering experience at a charity shop or similar - but that's all because of the kinds of roles I hire for, i.e. professionals in a very corporate setting.

PTA relevance is skill based though

If you help out at bake sales, not so much

If you approached local businesses to secure sponsorships, if you sorted event insurance and first aid cover etc, then yes! (Depending on person specification for the role)

MaisyPops agreed and a welcome outbreak of sanity!

I learnt a lot from being on our pre-school's management committee and co-chairing our PTA for eight years. As someone who has always been self-employed so has always steered my own ship, it was the committee environment that was entirely new to me.

Rather than put it on my CV, I have spoken about it at interview. This, along with founding and directing two choirs (one for recovering drug addicts and alcoholics) as well as starting a reading mentor programme at my sons' school (one for current parents and one for local retired people). I explain I did this whilst looking after my children before they started school. None of this is strictly relevant to my field of work but shows energy and drive.

Well said, tinsel twins.
Also, to the pp who mentioned shiny 4wd having a nice car doesnt mean you could afford to not work at all, thats a ridiculous judgement. Maybe their job is only available full time. And how would you know its not a work car? Would a dad be told they were working for wants not needs if they had a nice car? How do you know those cars belong to working mums and not sahp anyway?

Turquesa its called maternity leave...

I think people misunderstand. Being a SAHM obviously does not make you a better parent . If I had needed to go to work, then obviously I would have done so and I would have considered that "parenting" because nobody lives on thin air!you do what you need to do in the best interest of your family. My DH is as much if a parent as I am - he just happens to be the one who earns the money.

Yes of course people work shifts and around DC if they can. Maternity leave varies. That was not the point.

What I was responding to was the assertion that WOHMs "do everything that SAHMs do" and just "squeeze" it in to the evenings or weekends. If someone else is looking after your DC for signifucant proportions if their waking lives (I gave 35 hours as an example) then it would be very odd to claim that you "do everything" that the childminder or nursery does because you obviously don't. Just as my DH would never claim to do "everything" I do - how can he if he's only there weekends and evenings? It's not a criticism, but a fact.

I fully admitted I have no idea what it's like to juggle kids and WOH because I have never done that. But just as a full-time job can't be "squeezed", neither can the job of minute-to-minute parenting. The hours a SAHP puts in to thei DC are definitely as real as the hours someone puts into their job. Please don't try and pretend otherwise.

Having said this, I would never put nonsense on a CV. I would just say I had 3 DC and it should be obvious what that entailed.

then it would be very odd to claim that you "do everything" that the childminder or nursery does because you obviously don't
I think the central point to this is that being a SAHP and being a qualified, regulated childcare professional in a registered and regulated setting are not the same.

I have friends who are parents who work in childcare. I can tell you now they are quite open about how the 2 differ.

The fact stands that many others have, cleaning your house, minding your own kids, doing book-keeping, cooking tea etc are things that working parents (mums and dads) manage around work. To start claiming, as some have on this thread, that they're special SAHP tasks that nobody congratulates them on is just daft.

No Turquesa, what we are meaning is that there isn't anything additional we do in terms of skills and aptitudes we can apply in another setting (the workplace). You don't get appreciably better at these things by doing them more often. It's a bit like saying, candidate A orders paper clips yearly, candidate B orders them monthly. Does B do it better? Probably not.

Yes you need patience to deal with your children all day without a break. But that isn't a skill uniquely gained by child rearing.

Just a thought, but work isn't always headspace, as has been said. If you are a teacher of young children and then go straight home to your own...