AIBU to think SAHMs shouldn't put this nonsense on a CV/job application

[windygallows]

In the last year I've recruited for numerous part-time jobs, receiving applications from many women who took time out to be with family and are now returning to work.

Many of the applicants have been straightforward and simply noted on their CV that they have been SAHM - simple.

But increasingly applicants, perhaps based on some guidance from career counsellors or MN, are finding more creative ways to describe their absence from the workforce.

One, we'll call her Mrs Jones, wrote that for 10 years she was employed by the 'Jones family' and that her work involved 'organizing international travel for her family.' Because organizing a holiday is similar to the tasks led by senior executives.

Another wrote a list of every task she did at home from getting groceries to cleaning the house which, while impressive as an exhaustive list, doesn't really mean much when applying to an office-based role. Especially as it's basically a list of everything most employees have to fit in outside of work.

More galling are the claims that women make about the critical role they played - with my favourite being the one who 'Spent 7 years looking after my two children who needed and deserved my attention.'

There is huge value in the work that SAHMs do but please, please don't put this kind of waffle on your CV. You never know if your interview panel will consist of a FT working, single mom like me who finds it pretty insulting that working means her children apparently lost out on 'the attention they needed and deserved.' Urgh.

Gorgo, because not everything you put on your CV is based on professional experience.

Really SylviaPoe? If you mean things like voluntary positions and committee work, fine, but not if you're putting stuff that everyone does at home on there - that's just filling space and making you look out of touch with professional norms.

What kind of non-professional experience do you mean?

I used to have to advise people who had long periods in prison, or who'd never had a job due to drug addictions, or whose children were in care, or who had grown up in care themselves and had very chaotic lives, on writing CVs and getting entry level jobs.

Fair point, and I suppose highlights that context is always important in giving advice. In the sectors I work in, using those examples, even at entry level, would get you binned right quick. I do think, though, that it is pretty much always a bad idea to list time parenting as a "job", and if we are talking about someone who has a reasonable previous employment history, but has chosen to take some time out, then I would definitely advise them to make no or minimal mention of skills acquired outside work unless it was something both unusual AND very relevant.

Your advice would obviously be a lot better than mine in the context you work, though. I'm glad you are able to help so many people enter the workforce.

It very much depends on what the role is.

For example, when a company was looking for manual and catering based workers in an arts setting, many of them would have relevant work experience but not the in arts.

If they can then mention they've visited x art gallery or done x based arts activity on a trip out with kids, it bridges a gap by showing they have some engagement with and commitment to the arts, even though it's not work based experience.

Sorry, that was to Narnia not Tiramisu.

Yes, I agree that parenting should never be put down as a job.

Ktowb The idea that SAHMs have trouble getting into work routines/culture again is more s myth/perception than a reality. The biggest problem did them, like all working mothers, is childcare.

I think there there is two elements,

If someone put the skills gained by being a parent on their cv, I'd think they had no other way to prove those skills.

So would I take the person who said I have negotiation skills as I worked in x field, negotiated x deals with x customers and increased profitability , when the customer was unhappy and about to leave.

Or would I take the person who said, I have negotiation skills because I got my child to eat broccoli in return from an hour of CBeebies.

Would I take the person who said I managed international travel and associated budgets for a group of 12 cross eu employees, saving x amount per annum and setting up preferred progams.

Or would I take the person who says I managed international travel as I book the family holidays and always found the best deal possible for us.

I'd assume the person who used the family experience, had nothing else to offer so had to use being a parent.

So if uou can't demonstrate those skills any other way, then use them. But if you can, even if it was years ago, I'd use that first.

Gorgo, because not everything you put on your CV is based on professional experience.

There are sections on cvs for things that are not professional experience if you really needed to. Skills is not where it would go.

Booking a family holiday isnt relevant.

@formerbabe

Well, I do agree with you but perhaps if society valued motherhood and staying at home to raise children more, then women would not feel the need to justify the gap in their cv?

This. ^ Well said.

Haven't RTFT, (only page 1, 14, and 15,) but this sums up how I feel.

That said, I do understand where the OP is coming from. And yeah, I don't think careers advisers should be suggesting this as it is a bit naff.

As a pp said, just saying 'I took 10 years off to raise my children' is fine.

Ah, I understand you now SylviaPoe, that makes more sense.

I have to say that in my area whilst that kind of thing does get put on CVs, it will not get you an interview - we have too many people even for entry level jobs with proper experience and whilst interest in the area is great, what I really need is people who have experience of a catering kitchen/an NVQ in mechanics/a retail background showing CS skills.

However, that kind of example may well get you a voluntary role if included in a cover letter and that would start to get you to the level of experience we would expect.

I mean, you could put skills you have gained whilst being a SAHM on the CV, but not general looking after house and family stuff. That (as the OP said,) women who go out to work have to do anyway, outside their work hours.

Yuck. Seen it, don't like it, but will look past it. I used to draft CVs professionally. There is some terrible advice out there. Stating you had a career break for family etc looks miles better. Putting the nurse/nanny/taxi driver crap just looks ridiculous and immature, two qualities nobody wants on their CV regardless of what it's for, and I have seen some REALLY immature crap.

Re the gender stereotyping, this reminds me that when my husband applied for compressed hours for childcare, he was privately warned that no other man in the (large) company had put that as a reason, and the senior person warning him was concerned at how he might be perceived. The majority of women there on compressed hours have it for childcare. He went ahead anyway and it was fine, but yikes!

As someone who has recruited all kinds of staff for the past 30 years, I have such a dim view of CV "experts". They are usually far from expert. I can spot a "professionally written" CV a mile off and don't usually take it any further.

If anyone is considering help with a CV, go to someone who has real experience at the employer/hiring decision end of the selection process. A CV is not your autobiography. It's a selling tool which should be persuading the employer that you are worth an interview. It's not about what you want to say, it's about what the employer hears. You need to demonstrate that you have the skills and values that match the job the employer is recruiting for. To say you had 5 years out of paid employment is fine whether that's raising family, care responsibilities or whatever. To list financial management of household, organise family wardrobe, book annual holidays, weekly meal planning just makes me think that's not a job, that's just what working parents squeeze into lunch hours or evenings.

PS - It's accepted people will use a CV to show off their best points. A tiny degree of embellishment is accepted. Outright lying shows a lack of integrity which will likely result in dismissal when it's uncovered.

perhaps if society valued motherhood and staying at home to raise children more, then women would not feel the need to justify the gap in their cv?

But you DON'T really need to justify it, is what the people on here who actually hire have said. You just need to explain, in a single line, that it was voluntary time out and not time in prison for fraud or sat at home because no-one would hire you. You'd need to justify the gap just the same if you'd taken time out for a health problem, or if you did indeed go travelling. I went back to work after a career break for travel, so I had - very briefly - to justify that too, just to demonstrate that I left voluntarily and was doing something other than being unwillingly unemployed.

The fact that employers want to know, at a very high level, what you were doing if you weren't working for a span of years is not because women have to uniquely justify motherhood. I mean, some employers WILL be weird about any extended break, but lots won't, and some are actively targeting women who have taken breaks for "returnships" now.

I see a lot of these. The worst are the ones that include this endless list of easy everyday tasks under 'skills'. As though it's special, like everyone else doesn't also pay their bills and prepare food and sweep their floors.

I feel no guilt about dismissing those immediately. There's out of touch with the workplace, and then there's out of touch with reality. If you think the fact that you do your dishes is worth mentioning on a CV for any role bar dishwasher, then you're obviously in the latter group.

OP "Especially as it's basically a list of everything most employees have to fit in outside of work. "

this is the killer. If they want to list all of those things, I shudder to think how they will be in a workplace.

Exactly, the whole,point of the thread, the op, is that you don't need to justify it, it's fine to take time out to care. You don't need to pad out your cv to make it look like you did it as some form of career enhancemenent initiative.

A very good point. I got a CV once from a man, that had an 11 year gap. No explanation or anything. No attempt to address it. That makes no sense whatsoever. You just think he was sofa surfing. Not looking after children (a very demanding thing to do).

Neither of those art, although I have advocacy experience because of it, experience of the systems to get diagnosed, experience of handling medication and of filling in DLA forms.

All of those I already had but have continued to learn so much more. But to parents who haven't had a career in areas related to the above then developing those new skills/experiences are valuable on a CV.

I find people who give CV advice generally unhelpful.

I once received help from a charity who were specifically there to get women in their 20s into the workforce. I knew that my CV wasn't bad (I'm meticulous and it rarely fails to get me an interview). The "point for improvement" they made were:

"You state that you studied for your GCSEs/A-Levels/degree between these years. You should add in the months too".
Every sodding person knows that the academic year starts in September and ends in June/July! And I doubt any prospective employer cares.

It varies between industries. It is always helpful to listen to someone who recruits for the industry you work in.

Between the ages of 24-26 I had 16 consecutive interviews for relevant positions. In each of them I performed well, but never received an offer. I am paranoid that it's because they saw MATERNITY LEAVE as a banner over my head.

like everyone else doesn't also pay their bills and prepare food and sweep their floors

I'm not disagreeing that these things shouldn't be listed as professional skills on your cv. But clearly, not everyone does these things. Loads of threads on here from women whose partners don't do any of them, and most of us know people in real life where this is the case, or at least severely unequal.

I kind of wish these tasks were standard on all cvs because then you could see who is a functioning adult, as people who don't do the basic parts of looking after themselves tend to be nightmares to work with.

The majority of this thread is a lovely example of bashing. Nice job! SAHM are undervalued massively, derided and made to feel like useless spongers (going by the press articles and government schemes) so is it any darn wonder that they include the skills that they've used and learnt as the sole full time carer of a child or children? Also, those same skills would be very relevant and valued had they been a nanny or child minder! So, you bunch of judgy pants, is it only relevant experience when you're paid? :p

The whole argument is ridiculous. If somebody cooks for a family they're not a professional chef. It doesn't mean they can't be one or they know the basics. But being a parent isn't a profession. Never has been and never will be in spite of the silly attempts to justify it.

Once again, no it's not bashing and I still don't think that a single person has said they wouldn't employ someone who has been a SAHM. But the skills you gain as a parent (whether SAH or WOH) do not generally belong on a CV - they are generally not gained in a relevant environment, have not been in any way judged, appraised or assessed, no reference is available to attest to them. They have no place on a CV in the vast majority of cases.

If you are applying for a job in childcare then it is possible that it is relevant however even then you need to exercise caution as caring for your own children is not the same as caring for someone else's (e.g. as a nanny) or the same as working in a regulated childcare setting.

BY and large, experience as a parent is not relevant. There are specific exceptions - many of which have been discussed - but mostly no, it is not relevant.

is it only relevant experience when you're paid

Generally, yes, as then there is evidence you've done it (references etc).

And even when it is paid, it's not always relevant and shouldn't always be included!