AIBU to think SAHMs shouldn't put this nonsense on a CV/job application

[windygallows]

In the last year I've recruited for numerous part-time jobs, receiving applications from many women who took time out to be with family and are now returning to work.

Many of the applicants have been straightforward and simply noted on their CV that they have been SAHM - simple.

But increasingly applicants, perhaps based on some guidance from career counsellors or MN, are finding more creative ways to describe their absence from the workforce.

One, we'll call her Mrs Jones, wrote that for 10 years she was employed by the 'Jones family' and that her work involved 'organizing international travel for her family.' Because organizing a holiday is similar to the tasks led by senior executives.

Another wrote a list of every task she did at home from getting groceries to cleaning the house which, while impressive as an exhaustive list, doesn't really mean much when applying to an office-based role. Especially as it's basically a list of everything most employees have to fit in outside of work.

More galling are the claims that women make about the critical role they played - with my favourite being the one who 'Spent 7 years looking after my two children who needed and deserved my attention.'

There is huge value in the work that SAHMs do but please, please don't put this kind of waffle on your CV. You never know if your interview panel will consist of a FT working, single mom like me who finds it pretty insulting that working means her children apparently lost out on 'the attention they needed and deserved.' Urgh.

God this is just an embarrassing practice. Even if counselled to do this I'm astonished anyone wouldn't look twice at their CV and think better before sending it.

If SAHP are encouraged to add all their "transferable" skills then surely anyone should add theirs as a second job? My housekeeping and international travel booking skills were just as good before I was at home with DD!

@StatisticallyChallenged

I'm a working single parent.

I just see the same comments trotted out over and over again from both sides that means never the twain shall meet.

"I'm a SAHM because I could NEVER leave my kids"

"I do everything a SAHM does AND I work".

I can't decide whether the majority are deliberately trying to feel superior or trying to validate their own decisions.

@BabychamSocialist - I'd have loved to have seen them putting Disney Frozen plasters on their co-workers after a workplace injury and rummaging about for the Germolene :D

"...nor do I think you should write off everything a woman does in the years she may be looking after children full time as being completely without worth."

But, to a workplace, it is. The workplace doesn't care how many fish fingers you cooked, homework diaries you signed or boo-boos you kissed. They want to know what relevant skills you bring to the role of, say, accountant, or brain surgeon, or payroll cleark, or police officer. Your ability to book a holiday or remember to pack snacks is as irrelevant as your soccer prowess or your collection of antique thimbles - totally irrelevant and bringing it up makes you seem unhinged.

Like I say, I'm a SAHM about to retrain in a more technical role. My CV will contain the qualifications I have, the projects I've worked on, the products I've designed and built and the areas of expertise I am trained in. I will certainly not be writing a single word about mothering, parenting or kids and the very idea of doing so is jaw-dropping to me.

If you're good and experienced at booking international travel and it is very relevant to the job, why wouldn't you mention it?

I had absolutely no experience of booking any kind of international travel or participating in it before the age of thirty.

It is ludicrous to suggest that the person who dedicates 3 hours to the work that someone else is dedicating 8 hours to can do it to the same standard. There will be areas where the SAHM has the time and mental energy to put more in and do a better job. Whether that's fostering children's creativity through art and craft, exploring the neighborhood, or having the time to cook nicer meals, the extra time can and does make a difference.

Again, you're equating quality with quantity. Nobody has said that WOHP spend the same number of hours in the day entertaining their child although enough people have tried to misinterpret it as such. But in no way does that say anything about the STANDARD of the care or the skills developed. The care, activities etc provided by a WOHP could be to the same or better standard. You argue they're better because you spend more time doing it - I call bullshit on that. For every energetic, dedicated SAHP who thinks up endless activities and stimulation for their child, there's probably another whose kid spends half the day parked in front of the TV. I grew up with one of those.

Time spent on developing skills is not immaterial - although initial aptitude matters hugely - but the skills which are transferable to the workplace from parenting are not going to be hugely augmented in a sahp compared to a wohp. I don't think anyone is going to find you more valuable as an employee because you spent twice as many hours per week exploring the neighbourhood or because you cooked casserole instead of stir fry. All the time management, organisation type skills which are being talked about are not going to be any different. They're skills from parenthood (as well as other areas of life), not from being a sahp.

When I returned to work after being a SAHM I put something like "career break due to caring responsibilities". I did, however, do some volunteering so I had something constructive to put in my CV.

I agree that it isn't a great idea for a SAHM to list everything that she does on a regular basis but if CV professionals are advising them to do this I can't really blame them.

@SylviaPoe Because for most people it's about as complicated and exciting as getting an online grocery order.

Women are forced to explain themselves in a way that is unfair to them. I have ignored similar advice from advisers who want me to believe in myself, have faith in myself, blah blah blah and I do but my CV is binned for the gap, regardless of what I say. True story, a male friend who lost a decade to drug addiction has pulled it together and is now working and I'm so happy for him. But society was rooting for him to bounce back in to the workplace. Society is not rooting for mothers in the same way. It is awful that mothers are put up in the dock and forced to explain why they couldn't make paid employment work out for a few years.

If you're good and experienced at booking international travel and it is very relevant to the job, why wouldn't you mention it?

Because booking the family holiday is not the same as booking and managing an executive's travel, or managing travel policy, or wherever it might come up in a professional role, and it makes you look naïve and out of touch when you use experience of the one as evidence you can do the other.

Practically everyone has experience of booking international travel in the age of EasyJet and cheap package holidays. It's like saying you have experience of cooking your husband's dinner when applying for a chef's job. Nor is "experience of having travelled internationally" relevant for 99.9% of jobs. If, say, the job involves liaising with Chinese suppliers, and you spent 6 months living in Shanghai and have some working use of Mandarin, that might count, but using holidays as evidence of acquired "skills" just makes you look hopelessly out of touch.

Personally JacquesHammer, I don't feel any need to validate my choices but I get fed up people insinuating they are a better mother because they're at home. The whole "manager of my home and family" thing irritates me because it indicates that they think working parents don't do it - I don't know who they think does do it, since the vast majority of people don't have a full domestic staff. If you want to be a sahm, fine. Want to work, fine.

But don't claim that being a sahp gives you this amazing additional skill set compared to other parents, because it really doesn't.

And definitely don't claim it on a CV unless you want to irritate people!

All SAHP cook nicer meals than WOHM parents? What utter tosh.

It depends how junior a job you're applying for, and what other skills you had.

If it is a job where you have many of the other skills listed from work, but don't have the travel experience. It would certainly be worth dressing up booking trips outside of work as enjoying organising travel for groups of people, taking the lead in travel arrangements etc.

Very many people end up in roles all the time where they have to use experience from outside of work as a partial basis of getting a job. It's not saying you have exactly the same experience as someone who has already done that job, but frequently people get jobs they haven't previously done before, with the expectation that they'll bridge the gap in work.

If you're good and experienced at booking international travel and it is very relevant to the job, why wouldn't you mention it?

And this is the whole point. Being able to bool a family holiday is not the same as doing for a job.

Society is not rooting for mothers in the same way. It is awful that mothers are put up in the dock and forced to explain why they couldn't make paid employment work out for a few years.

I agree some employers write off people whobhave recently being a sahm. But not society as a whole. I have been employed by 2 companies (2 of the UKs biggest) who couldn't give a shit and dont hold veing a sahp against anyone.

I got jobs with them and have seen them both recruit. Neither have considered sahp to be a flaw.

They would consider calling yourself a chef because you cooked for your family every night, poor judgment.

And Tiramisu, don't you think your examples are a little extreme?

No, you can't go straight from cooking someone's dinner to becoming a chef! Of course not.

But there are smaller jumps people can make from home to work, and many people aren't go for some high powered or highly skilled job.

Many people are just attempting to get into the job market at fairly low levels.

I genuinely thought the purpose of this thread was to help women who wished to get back into work.

Many of us feel just saying career break to care for family is valid. It does not need to be justified, explained or bigged up.its enough in itself.

Other feels stating the skills gained like time management ( kids went to school on time), negotiation. Skills, ( they are their broccoli) perseverance ( I thought it was really hard but kept at it as it's the most important thing in the world) is also valid and should be on a cv.

As individuals we can only take on board the discussion,make our own minds up, act accordingly and let the cards fall as they may.

It would certainly be worth dressing up booking trips outside of work as enjoying organising travel for groups of people, taking the lead in travel arrangements etc.

Thats not exeperince or a skill. Thay would come under hobbies or interests or the personal section.

And if nothing on your actual CV backs up that you have done it in a professional capacity it looks like you are lying and fluffing.

My DC have disabilities. I would put full time carer (although I have often worked or volunteered on a very part time basis as well-known currently 4-6 hours per week).

I would put that on a CV. And the training courses I have done related to their disabilities. It involves a great deal of transferable skills and the patience I have developed while being the primary carer to all 3 with extremely challenging behaviour is invaluable with in work. Nothing phases me now.

I wouldn't put that I did this because they needed and deserved my attention and care, but they did and you'd be a muppet if you didn't recognise that.

'Being able to bool a family holiday is not the same as doing for a job.'

But nobody is saying it is the same thing.

Of course, Gone. That's all relevant.

What I'd be bothered about seeing on a cv is something saying you have legal experience because you've advocated for your children, or nursing experience because you've cared for them.

sylvia yes you did. You said why wouldnt you put it on your CV?

Why would you put 'booking family holidays' on your CV?

Its not professional experience

Tiramisu, don't you think your examples are a little extreme?

Experience of booking international travel is too weak an example to differentiate you, though, no matter the level. EVERYONE's done it. Like PP says it's like getting an online shopping order.

Yes, especially at entry level sometimes you have to use out-of-work examples to demonstrate skill profiles, but I wouldn't go with that one because it doesn't put you in a strong position. It needs to be something lots of people WOULDN'T have done. And if you do have a significant skills gap you're better finding a way to fill it through volunteering/a course of some kind. Even at entry level, it's not a good look to give an employer the impression that you think the routine things that everybody does as part of, you know, life are some kind of special skill. To get a job, you have to not just prove you've got the skills they want, you have to prove (or convince them) that you're the best of the available candidates.

Gorgo, because not everything you put on your CV is based on professional experience.

If I had to explain an absence from the workforce I would put it as travel or something absolutely not motherhood or family commitments

If I see a five year gap on a CV with 'career break - family' or whatever on it, I go 'huh' and move on because it's a totally reasonable thing to spend 5 years not in paid employment for.

If I see a five year gap that just says 'travelling' or something similarly flakey, it would be a small red flag to me - I would be wondering about your committment.

Tiramusu, I think we may be coming from different perspectives.

I used to have to advise people who had long periods in prison, or who'd never had a job due to drug addictions, or whose children were in care, or who had grown up in care themselves and had very chaotic lives, on writing CVs and getting entry level jobs. And many did gets jobs.

Many people aren't even functionally literate. The notion that everyone can or has done XYZ is simply not the case.

I activitely want to recruit mums for some role which are part time but also technical work. They are difficult to find and I wouldn't mind these descriptions even if they sound odd.
My issue is getting out the habit of work and how this is addressed. I have seen some recent ex SAHMs struggle to get back into working mode and the hours. Even for part time roles.