To be worried about the future of WOMEN'S athletics

[TeamCersei]

Just that really.

I've been avidly following the athletics and have noticed that at least two countries where the competitors are, how can I say this tactfully,? Are of dubious gender.
and guess what. They win the races. Every time.

How can women compete against this?
How is it fair?

I'm prepared to get my arse handed on a plate but I don't care.
I think this needs to be discussed.
God only knows how it feels from a competitor's point of view.
No matter how hard you train, the best woman can't hope to win against'men'

Well OP, since you clearly know more than the IAAF and the CAS combined and since you are clearly coming to this from a totally neutral point of view, I simply can't understand why you haven't been asked to make the decision on behalf of the world. For goodness sake, this is a highly complicated and sensitive issue which cannot be solved at the drop of a hat.

Yes, it is complicated.
It's important.
That's why it's being discussed.

YANBU. I have totally understanding for people who feel they are one gender but their body says otherwise. However, success in the sports in question are dependant upon physical attributes.

Intersex athletes should be made to take hormone suppressants that puts them more in line with the gender they identify with and want to compete against. Transgender athletes unfortunately I don't believe should be able to compete with biological women due to unfair advantage they would have.

Intersex athletes should be made to take hormone suppressants that puts them more in line with the gender they identify with I think the very opposite. I don't think someone who needs hormone suppressants to stick within the guidelines. That's still doping albeit in reverse.
I suspect that if more intersex athletes come to the fore in the sprints thus threatening the USA sprint titles then something will be done about the whole debacle.

I don't think someone who needs hormone suppressants to stick within the guidelines should be able to compete.

My 14 year old DD made an interesting point about this. Why aren't there any intersex footballers - i.e. would a football team accept an intersex footballer? Can we blame the male domination of the sport (don't jump down my neck about the Lionesses - I am a huge fan) or the team aspect of the game?

Before we know it, we'll have serious football/cricket/rugby teams made up of men 'identifying as women'! It's only a matter of time now.

FFS should be able to compete. Should not

Some of you really need to look up the difference between intersex and transgender. They are completely unrelated and, as such, your arguments make no sense

The only reason people are mentioning transgender, is because transgender is next.
Intersex is merely opening the door.
Nobody is trying to say that intersex and transgender are the same.

I give up

For goodness sake, this is a highly complicated and sensitive issue which cannot be solved at the drop of a hat

Which is why women interested in sports and womens' rights are discussing it

Can someone, who understands intersex better than me, explain why this only seems to affect women's sport?

Perhaps the term intersex is misleading?

Is there an intersex condition that would give an individual an advantage over men, not just women?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/22/im-surviving-transphobia-when-id-rather-just-play-footy

Trans football player here. It is the start of things to come.

I don't think someone who needs hormone suppressants to stick within the guidelines should be able to compete.

This. We need to stop the insanity.
Women are women, men are men, and intersex people are intersex.

Men being allowed in women's spaces after they have surgery and take hormones was a bad idea - MRAs now whine and complain that male trans are "forced" to have surgery before they can "express their gender identity", which is utter nonsense, because no one forbids them to wear a dress. It is all about access to women's spaces.

Taking hormone suppressants is not necessarily healthy, and besides, wouldn't fix the problem with bone structure, etc., so intersex athletes should compete against each other, or men, not against women.

Trans people should a) petition for their own category or b) just accept that, if male, they don't stand a chance after taking estrogen, or, if female, they won't be allowed to compete against women, because the rules about doping with testosterone are the same ones for all women, regardless of gender identity.

There's lots of people who cannot compete in professional sports because of personal choices they made, or illnesses they have. Why should trans be the category to be specifically catered to? We don't let disabled men compete against women so they stand a chance, now, do we? Disabled people had to get their own category.

Is there an intersex condition that would give an individual an advantage over men, not just women?

Men with XXY for some reason grow taller than other men, but the accompanying health issues and reduced muscle growth would probably mean they're not going to win at basketball despite that ...

Datun, it only affects women's sport, because it's easier to compete. In the same way that Transgender people only compete in women's sport. Or at least we don't hear of any competing in men's sport.

While I have great sympathy for those whose gender is uncertain/not how they feel, I think it is so sad that their rights are considered more important than the rights of 50% of the population.

Thanks Vestal You explained it very clearly.

So Vestal your are saying intersex or hermaphrodites should ether be exculed from competing in sport due to there biology?

By that reckoning i am sure you would not be oppsed to divide sport by race?

Black people are genetically better (on averge) for certain types of sports with the best examples being stuff such as long distance running there IS a reason people of Africain decent dominate these areas and most not African males cannot compete should they have there own section to give others a chance? The same reason how far eastern Asian typically dont do well at running for the same thing of there biology so are at a massive disadvantage?

Seem with tall people vs short people?

See you cannot split biology into different cartagories without disadvantaging or discriminating against others, otherwise you would need to split it up by race or height or any other disadvatage / advantage some peoples biology gives them?

(I am not wading in about Transpeople as genetically they are there sex just giving my two cent about hermaphrodites or intersex people (when did the term intersex came about? when my brother was born a hermaphrodite 21 years ago the term was hermaphrodite)

Semenya didn't win the 150 though, which shows she can be beaten by 'normal' women.

1500m - sorry

So Vestal your are saying intersex or hermaphrodites should ether be exculed from competing in sport due to there biology? Sadly I think that should be the case.

Yes I think they should be too worridmum. Sport is the one area where women cannot hope to be better than men.

Intersex people can have their own category if they like - they make up less than 2% of the population though.

but you didnt answer my second point should we also split sport into race as well?

As the same advantages can be found there too or is that too risky? in a none racist way when i was doing a MA in Human evolution there are key differences to biological aspects that some ethicinties are better on averge then other in some aspects (the key word here is averge), like there are tribes in sub sharain africa that can run down grizellas (as in massively long distance that no other people can compete against on averge) like in some cases there are body building women that can destory most men while not being able to compete against body building men (hence the word averge).

but the problem jiggylytuff hermaphrodites or intersex are not men they on the most part cannot compete agaisnt them ether.

So to be fair there proberly should be more catorgoies as genetically some different ethicities are better at things then others but rather then excluding a sizeable population due to biology why dont we go one step futhur and divide completly by biology having an Far East Asian long distince races (as on averge they do less well then others as there leg span and height and build put them on averge at a disadvatage to both African decent and Europeans. Or put people of African decent into there own cartogry because of their genetics can give them an advantage over others?

Btw I am not saying is in a racist fashion just trying to state provable sceintific points and not putting negitive conintations but genetically there are different adaptions for enthicits around the world that give them advatages or disadvatages agaisnt other encities.