To be worried about the future of WOMEN'S athletics

[TeamCersei]

Just that really.

I've been avidly following the athletics and have noticed that at least two countries where the competitors are, how can I say this tactfully,? Are of dubious gender.
and guess what. They win the races. Every time.

How can women compete against this?
How is it fair?

I'm prepared to get my arse handed on a plate but I don't care.
I think this needs to be discussed.
God only knows how it feels from a competitor's point of view.
No matter how hard you train, the best woman can't hope to win against'men'

It's all bollocks and it;s appalling that FEMALE athletes who are speaking out about the playing field being so uneven are being silenced.

There is obviously a clear difference between being intersex and being transgender, but if things carry on the way they are going the result will be the same - female athletes squeezed out of competition by intersex people, trans women who have gone through the surgery, and men who "identify" as female.

It is so unfair for this reason athletes competing during this "trial" period. Training is their lives yet they never stand much of a chance of a place higher than 4th.
Yet 5 years ago they'd have been winning with their times

I put trans and intersex people together because they share a Y chromosome and intersex people who aren't insensitive to the effects of testosterone (ie the ones who can win races against elite women) have the advantage of masculine musculature and testosterone level once they hit puberty.
Rather than testing chromosomes you could just insist on a maximum testosterone level of 5 or 6.

Justicewoman. Swyer syndrome is extremely rare. I am far more concerned about the large numbers of XX elite athletes who are disadvantaged by the current system than a tiny percentage who may lose out if people with Y chromosomes can't compete in elite races as women. It's a greatest good of the greatest number thing.

The people who have been winning the women's events for the last few decades are the genetic outliers who happen to have the most T and the best muscle types and pain thresholds etc.

Now there are a few intersex athletes becoming the genetic outliers winning in women's categories.

I really can't get excited about which specific genetic outliers currently have the upper hand. Regardless of how freaky you are, and how hard you train, there is always going to be someone even freakier just round the corner who can take it all away from you because of their genetic advantage.

Live by the genetic sword, die by the genetic sword.

All sport is played with in a range, whether that range is age, ability, skill, weight, chemical levels, male, female or in some cases machine (rallying, F1) why should this be different?

Should there perhaps be a new "specialist" category of Women Born As Women - XX only, no Y chromosomes in any combination - in addition to the normal stipulations. Leave the present so called Women's category to the intersex, trans, etc competitors who would eventually dominate it. But they still get to be termed Women, so they get their wish. The WBAW specialist category would have the shock of the new and anyone objecting to it could be seen as bigots in the current terminology. And it would encompass the entirety of what up till recently was known as Women's sport, so would not be a tiny sub category. What's in a name?

This idea about "no Y chromosomes allowed" is such an unscientific idea.

The sporting bodies stopped using the chromosome test as scientific advances showed some 30+ genes are involved in determining sex and only ONE is on the Y chromosome. Gene translocation (accidental swapping around at the DNA level) means you can have a Y chromosome without even that one SRY gene or a pair of XX chromosomes that give rise to a male foetus.

It is just not that simple.

I have no issues with the Castors of this world taking part in the women's competitions, she was raised female, and had no idea that her biology was different until she was subjected to testing. Plenty of athletes have a biological advantage, and plenty of us have been dealt a less advantageous card athletically. There is no way I could be a world class gymnast, no matter how much I train, I am totally inflexible, and nothing would get me to world class standard! But from the finger test, I do have higher levels of testosterone than the average woman, and I have happily used that biological advantage where I could, I am stronger than a lot of women I know, and maybe if I could have been bothered could have been a decent weightlifter or hammer thrower.

The sporting bodies stopped using the chromosome test as scientific advances showed some 30+ genes are involved in determining sex and only ONE is on the Y chromosome. Gene translocation (accidental swapping around at the DNA level) means you can have a Y chromosome without even that one SRY gene or a pair of XX chromosomes that give rise to a male foetus.

Source?

Always nice when science makes progress, but I am rather sceptical about such claims, as I have only ever seen them made in discussions of women's rights vs rights of males who identify as whatever.

But the testosterone levels were raised to allow them to compete. They weren't already within the permitted range

YABU - the final tonight will be all three medals going to the 3 intersex athletes taking part.

Sorry, should be 'YANBU'

You do realise that most born female atheletes also play around with their hormone profile to the acceptable levels right? There is a lot of legal doping in athletics.

So yes Semenya might be intersex but I bet most of the other athletes have taken something legal to give them an advantage.

What nonsense Genghi. " Most " female athletes do not do this. I'm sure some have, but not " most" .

I've been wondering, if it's fair for born men to compete against born women, why isn't yet fair for born women to compete against children ?

Can I enter U12 events if I can adjust my hormone levels to be at the same as an 11yo? Would that then be fair, even if I'm 5'10" and 10 stone - can I then play rugby or tennis with little kids ? Cos after all, it's all about hormones isn't it ?

The final tonight will be all three medals going to the 3 intersex athletes taking part.

There are 3?
I thought there were only 2

Wambui, Niyonsaba and Semenya are all running in the final tonight

How fucking shit. How really fucking shit for women. Men get to virtue signal while it has no impact whatsoever on them.

All this crap about the IOC and the IAF saying it's all okay. Both organisations are dominated by men. What do they care? They get to look really progressive, and fuck over women at the same time. Win win for them

I would like to see a high profile female runner speak out about this.
Its unlikely to happen. They would get accused of all sorts.

It appears that Intersex athletes have a huge advantage in women's sport, and that's bad enough, but to shut down any discussion about it and vilify any athlete who tries to speak out about it is doubly worrying.

Watching the 800m final now.

Semenya wins.

She won on a negative split which is very rare on an 800m race.

From the back, after she turned round post winning, you'd be hard pushed not to think Semanya is male.

Great run, but not entirely fair.