To wonder if Nazi Germany felt like the UK does now, when they were creeping into power?

[oneggshellsforever]

Transformations in the justice system are happening, stacking the odds against disabled people having a fair hearing when they appeal sanctions or having disability benefits turned down.

They're getting rid of in person tribunals, and getting rid of expert panel members.

Disabled people are often successful when it goes to appeal, so the government seem to be systematically stripping the legal system of a fair trial?

Will start happening in October. What the government is doing to disabled people, and people with very little money in general, is chilling me to the bone. I honestly wonder if the feeling in the atmosphere was like this in 1930's Germany.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/12/online-benefits-appeals-tribunals-disabled

Orlantina....but that's the thing...I'm not aware of this undercurrent. I think it's very easy when you are unhappy and don't agree with something to think the whole world agrees with you. I can't talk for others, but I don't. I really don't see this undercurrent, perhaps I'm living life through rose coloured spectacles but there you have it. Listening to my parents, I think the world is a much better place now than it was then.

Unemployment stats are beautifully massaged. Literally on way out door for dinner so won't be replying for a while but will be reading any other thoughts later!

The proliferation of technology will hopefully stop fascism in it's tracks.

Technology is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, you are correct, anybody can go online and share what's happening and theoretically everybody in the world to see what's going on. This could (and probably does) prevent a lot of bad stuff happening.

On the other hand, technology itself could become a tool of fascism.

For example, universal credit, which is replacing all working age means tested benefits, requires every claimant to manage their claim online. The idea is that everything is joined up, all their efforts at jobseeking are recorded, HMRC can provide real time updates on working and income etc. all JCP communications are done via the claimant's online 'journal'. Very efficient.

In reality, UC is a complete dysfunctional clusterfuck and its architect, Lord Freud, is also an advocate of blockchain as a system of paying benefits. It would tie in beautifully with UC. It's modern, it's high tech, it would help our benevolent govt. provide the best budgeting advice to all claimants. It would permit them to spy on every single penny spent by a claimant, where, when and what on. It would permit them to block any purchases that were deemed to be not in a claimant's best interests.

Another example is propaganda. We live in an age of fake news, alternative truth and algorithms that funnel content at you depending on someone else's agenda.

there is also the issue that a lot of people are not totally honest in claiming disability benefits, ie claiming they can't work when they can

Even the government acknowledge that the rate of fraudulent claims is less than 1%. Is that a reason to punish the 99+% of genuine claimants?

You seem to blindly believe anything you're told, as long as it suits your agenda.

Whenever the longterm sick rates go up, the unemployment rates go down, and vice versa

Lies, white lies and statistics....

Vastly more people entitled to benefits don't claim them than people claiming dishonestly.

I'm not aware of this undercurrent

I think it's there.

I think the world is a much better place now than it was then

It is. But things can change.

"It's a similarity in attitudes, a gradual wearing down of what is acceptable. The othering, the blaming, the rhetoric."

That's frankly ridiculous.

The othering, the blaming, the dehumanisation you are referring to were acceptable before the Nazis, before Weimarer Republic, and not just in Germany but all over Europe and most of the world. You are talking about disablist beliefs and behaviours that go all the way back to the middle ages and before probably since the beginning of human history.

It is simply inaccurate to compare a growing trend in the UK for marginalising and disempowering the disabled (and other) groups of people with the beliefs and attitudes you are referring to in your op.

On the other hand, technology itself could become a tool of fascism

Totally. Fake news, false stats, misleading stats, continuously repeating a false narrative etc etc.

No there isn't. There is a very very small minority that do.

No, theres a small number of people (convicted) of benefit fraud, but I would say there are many people claiming to be too unwell to work when they could do 'some' work, claiming to be single parents when then have a partner, subletting their council homes, only working 16 hours a week when they could work more etc etc

My grandmother lived in nazi Germany then Britain. I think she's better placed to judge than you OP

Bombardier. I don't have an agenda. I don't believe 1% at all I'm afraid. I'm aware of lots of cases of people claiming when they shouldn't. This is why there is more testing in place.

No, theres a small number of people (convicted) of benefit fraud, but I would say there are many people claiming to be too unwell to work when they could do 'some' work, claiming to be single parents when then have a partner, subletting their council homes, only working 16 hours a week when they could work more etc etc

The 1% figure is the overall rate, not the number of prosecutions! It's a government figure, if you don't believe it then provide some evidence to the contrary.

"On the other hand, technology itself could become a tool of fascism."

^YY to this. Technology is the perfect tool for 24/7 surveillance. OP, TBH i'd look at Sci-Fi for more astute comparison of the developments we are witnessing.

One of my favourite quotes is by Canadian media theorist Marshall McLuhan

We see the world through a rear-view mirror. We march backwards into the future.

Again OP, I agree with your sentiment that the developments we are witnessing are disturbing. However, comparing the to Nazi Germany is not helpful nor is it accurate.

Why should a person who chooses not to work have the same lifestyle as a surgeon or a firefighter or a lawyer?

Because what's happening now is that anyone who doesn't work, for whatever reason is assumed to be making a lifestyle choice.
It's assumed that a high proportion of benefits claimants are fraudsters, which isn't true.
It's assumed that a high proportion of DLA/PIP claimants are fraudsters, which isn't true.
IIRC the number of people actively choosing not to work is low. The majority of social welfare goes to pensioners and to the working poor.

Unless you believe what you read in the Daily Mail or see on channel 4 propaganda documentaries.

Orlantina...things are constantly changing that's life. Hopefully they will continue to change for the better.

Bombardier...if that's an overall figure it's got to be a total guesstimate surely, as if they knew who was fraudulentley claiming, they would prosecute them.

Hopefully they will continue to change for the better

Of course. But if people don't stand up for others. things can get worse.

There are people who could do some work, but suitable jobs are not there: the 60 year old labourer who has severe arthritis may be able to hold down a desk job but has no administrative or IT skills and frankly, it is unrealistic to expect him gain them. People who have been out of work for decades would require incredibly expensive input to get them back in to some kind of paid employment - where the resource for that to come from?
Every time somebody 'throws a sickie' after a rough weekend, they are committing 'fraud' (maybe not in the legal sense, but morally yes).
The fact remains, that many more people don't apply for benefits that ought to get them.

And I really fail to see how people who have been on DLA for all of their lives due to congenital conditions, whose conditions are not improving (or getting worse) have to reapply for PIP. Ludicrous.

DWP uses private providers for their assessments. The appeal rate when I last looked at it was around 60% and the vast majority of those won their appeal. Disability assessments have become a money making scheme which is scandalous and certainly does not benefit the disabled person/s.

Bombardier. I don't have an agenda. I don't believe 1% at all I'm afraid. I'm aware of lots of cases of people claiming when they shouldn't. This is why there is more testing in place.

Do you know they don't have a legitimate claim, or are you basing your opinion on gossip and watching them behind your curtains?

Whether you see it or not, your agenda is quite clear. You'll make up any reason to justify the government repeatedly kicking the most vulnerable. Maybe you're naive, maybe you choose to turn a blind eye because it doesn't affect you, either way your ignorance is shameful.

IIRC the number of people actively choosing not to work is low. Really???

@Orlantina

"I was going to write out a long list of individual cases of people who have died as a result of our hamfisted and obfuscatory welfare system but I don't have the heart to do so right now. I find it depressing and grim. If I have enough mental energy to do it later though I will."

Do you really not understand the difference between a "hamfisted and obfuscatory welfare system"and a GENOCIDE?

As I said above your comparison trivialises the events of the HOLOCAUST and is massively offensive.

Just look at Turkey

www.newsweek.com/turkey-referendum-women-rights-feminism-584456

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/the-guardian-view-on-turkish-press-freedom-standing-up-for-democracy

Change can happen quickly

Orlantina.....I don't know that on the whole there are less people standing up for others? What are you basing this on?

The use of technology terrifies me.

News was a tightly control tooled of most totalitarian regimes.

Anybody else shudder at the snippets of North Korean TV 'news' we sometimes see here??

As I said above your comparison trivialises the events of the HOLOCAUST and is massively offensive

I think you have directed that at the wrong person.