To wonder if Nazi Germany felt like the UK does now, when they were creeping into power?

[oneggshellsforever]

Transformations in the justice system are happening, stacking the odds against disabled people having a fair hearing when they appeal sanctions or having disability benefits turned down.

They're getting rid of in person tribunals, and getting rid of expert panel members.

Disabled people are often successful when it goes to appeal, so the government seem to be systematically stripping the legal system of a fair trial?

Will start happening in October. What the government is doing to disabled people, and people with very little money in general, is chilling me to the bone. I honestly wonder if the feeling in the atmosphere was like this in 1930's Germany.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/12/online-benefits-appeals-tribunals-disabled

If the argument in favour of this country being like Nazi Germany is based on the fact that we are not funding disability benefits properly

No, the argument is based on the fact that there is an increase in the othering, dehumanising, and demonising of anyone that is on benefits. Talk of the 'deserving poor' and the 'undeserving poor'. People literally dying because of Government policies. These are the worrying trends that appear when Fascism is creeping up.

The Holocaust was the final consequence of a development that took a couple of decades to affect change.
Nobody is suggesting that the current welfare/benefits changes = holocaust.

I don't know that on the whole there are less people standing up for others? What are you basing this on

I think that there are people being 'othered' and people don't say anything because they think it's got nothing to do with them. People should stand up for Hate.

Bombardier...if that's an overall figure it's got to be a total guesstimate surely, as if they knew who was fraudulentley claiming, they would prosecute them.

Christ, you're still trying to defend the indefensible.

Of course it is an estimate, but it is an educated estimate based on knowledge of the population. It is far more accurate than your tainted "knowledge" of benefit claimants.

Bombardier...and do you know that they don't? As I've said 1% is surely a complete made up guestimate as they just don't know who is claiming fraudulentely, and neither do you. I haven't made up any reasons, I've just said things are generally much better now than in our parents day. This is my view and it's not ignorant just because you don't agree with it. You clearly think differently and that's fine, that's what life is all about. I'm sorry I'm just not aware of things getting terribly worse in general.

I think this well-known poem has a lot that deserves pondering

Bombardier...I'm really not in a minority thing there are a lot of people making fraudulent claims?

Benefit fraud vs tax evasion

Unclaimed benefits

Welfare myth

These were the first 3 hits when I googled 'benefit fraud vs unclaimed benefits'.
Information is out there.

Mumzypopz - I'm not aware of this undercurrent.

Clearly! What colour is the sky in your bubble?

I don't believe 1% at all I'm afraid.

So where are you getting your info from? Not interested in your neighbour who doesn't 'look' disabled and owns a telly, stats please.

This is why there is more testing in place.

Nope. People are being put through more frequent, more gruelling assessments because the govt. have a stated aim of cutting expenditure by 20%, despite the very low fraud rate for disability benefits.

And yes we do have the fucking money, it's just being funnelled to an increasingly small number of super-rich people at the very top.

Just to remind you.

Is this what's expected in a modern democracy?

DWP figures - from 2012 admittedly, but I am also 'supervising' dinner (I use the term loosely )

Bombardier...and do you know that they don't? As I've said 1% is surely a complete made up guestimate as they just don't know who is claiming fraudulentely, and neither do you

It is not a complete made up guesstimate, it is an informed estimate based on various factors and the make up of the population. Do the government usually make wide sweeping decisions based on "complete made up guestimates"?

You could use this thread as an opportunity to learn and understand just how bad things are for the vulnerable in our society. Instead you continue to come up with nonsense arguments to defend the nasty attacks. You are a symptom of everything that is wrong with this country.

If you're not aware then learn, talk to these people that you think so little of and try to understand their situations. Stop being a sheep!

Zzzzz. Did you then pay for his care at the second hospital? I'm thinking the healthcare was free, just that the treatment plan at the first hospital was clearly not suitable? I'm curious as to what explanation they gave you around the general anaesthesia?

Claiming benefits has gone beyond being a lifesaving thing for people when they hit hard times and a right and entitlement claimed by far too many who are capable of work but don't think they should have to if they don't want to. Genuinely disabled people shouldn't have to worry but they have to be tested now because so many take the piss.

I'd bet that most of us know someone who claims a benefit or tax credit that frankly they shouldn't need to. It do because the rules say they can.

It's gone too far the other way and has to be balanced again. It's not a never ending pot of money and with people living longer etc we need to contribute more not just focus on what we can get out of the system.

I personally know families that don't have a full time worker because they don't need to. Others who boast about their PIP claims and new cars for invisible illnesses that can't be disproved but don't stop them working or living life to the full.

It has to start somewhere and it's never going to be easy or popular but it's our own fault for getting carried away with a utopian world where no one has to work if they don't fancy it and you just get more money if you have more kids.

@Pacific
The op's comparison is specifically to "Nazi Germany"- not to the early days of the Weimar Republic "a couple of decades earlier".
The only reason this thread has received the response it has is because of the use of the term "NAZI "
If the Op meant 1920s Germany they should have used those words.

The Genocides of the 20th Century should not be trivialised in this way.

Perhaps try living or working in another European country such as Poland and see how the baseline is different.
In Greece they barely even have a welfare state. No one is accusing them of being nazis.
What are the % uk citizens voting the BNP?

Thing is, Daily Mail headlines during the 1990s would be the same. And I think it's worth remembering the Huff post et al have an agenda as much as the Mail does. The fact you may agree with it doesn't make it any less an agenda.

Bombardier....what nasty attacks? The op asked for opinions and I've given mine. I don't need to learn from anyone. I get my knowledge from a wide source, the same as most people, and I just don't see this undercurrent, I'm sorry. What people do I think so little of? I have said I think little of anyone?

Haven't said, not have said

This is my view and it's not ignorant

Yes it is.

People are quoting the DWP's estimate of fraud figures. The DWP are in the best position to know how many fraudulent claims they get. They also have a strong interest in countering fraud and lowering spending. Why on earth do you think they would underestimate fraud rates?

If you have better data than the DWP please share it.

Recommended reading: No, you’re not entitled to your opinion.

Of course, every news outlet has an agenda.
Which is why I prefer to cross-reference.
And ideally use source material, but that would have taken more digging and, well....

Quetzal, I take your point.
The OP did acknowledge at some point that the wording of her OP was clumsy.

The fact you may agree with it doesn't make it any less an agenda

There's not agreeing and then there is deliberate othering of people and creating an atmosphere of hate to people and groups.

If people agree with othering and creating an atmosphere of hate towards others, then I worry about sharing an island with those people. I will call it out and stand up against it.

Do you agree with "othering" of groups and helping create an atmosphere of hate and intolerance?

the problem is there is not an overflowing pot of money to keep paying the benefits that we have paid out over the last fifty years or so

Things there are unlimited money for:

The DUP
Corporation tax cuts
Trident
Tax cuts for the rich
MP's and their expenses
The Monarchy
The bankers to get off scot free

I think in some hard of thinking peoples minds they hear that the benefits are capped at £20,000 and think all people on benefits get that a year WE DONT!!