To wonder if Nazi Germany felt like the UK does now, when they were creeping into power?

[oneggshellsforever]

Transformations in the justice system are happening, stacking the odds against disabled people having a fair hearing when they appeal sanctions or having disability benefits turned down.

They're getting rid of in person tribunals, and getting rid of expert panel members.

Disabled people are often successful when it goes to appeal, so the government seem to be systematically stripping the legal system of a fair trial?

Will start happening in October. What the government is doing to disabled people, and people with very little money in general, is chilling me to the bone. I honestly wonder if the feeling in the atmosphere was like this in 1930's Germany.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/12/online-benefits-appeals-tribunals-disabled

History repeats itself but we never seem to learn.

Pencils....no, it's not ignorant. Perhaps read users thread and have a go at her too eh? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, isn't that what this thread is about?

The point is not that things have been worse at some point in the past, or that things are worse elsewhere. The point is that things are getting worse now, here in the UK, and these changes are ideological, not driven by economics.

mumypopz my comment about free healthcare not being universally available to all was based on our personal experience of being told in our area they don't do fillings under GA for children like my son (neurological difference) they just pulled the teeth out. Mercifully once I had managed to recover from feeling sick i was able to arrange for us to go to a different hospital where they don't think yanking children's teeth out is a good way of saving resources.

Yes, some hospitals choose to divert scarce resources to more serious conditions.

OP we were at the Topography of Terror earlier in the year and thought exactly the same.

I also don't think all Tories are fascists. I do think that the atmosphere politically and socially has become a lot more right wing; re. disability, it's ok to be disabled if you're the 'right' kind of disabled, ie a 'superhuman' or if you are bright and articulate; it's less ok to be working class with mental health problems and a poor education.

I also struggle with 'what can we do' and there's not much except challenge on a micro level and campaign on a macro level. And do as much to help each other as possible.

I do think that the atmosphere politically and socially has become a lot more right wing

I think it has got a lot more polarised. The Left has moved waaaay to the Left, and the Centre has effectively disappeared.

I'm a paid-up member of the Liberal Democrats, rabid remoaner, etc, and yet I was accused of being a Daily Mail reader a few comments ago for not wanting out-and-out communism, in which those who could work and decide not to are assured of "the same standard of living" as - to just take one example that I actually took - firefighters!! I don't want all wealth redistributed. But I do think disabled people should receive benefits on which they can live comfortably and should be treated with dignity. How does this make me a rabid right-winger? Jesus, it has all got very un-nuanced.

If your opinion is not based on ignorance what is it based on Mumzypopz? Please provide sources for your interesting conclusions.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, isn't that what this thread is about?

No, it's a discussion about what's actually happening in the UK and elsewhere in wealthy western countries. Facts are helpful, informed opinions, even if contrary, are helpful. People spouting about what they 'reckon' based on no evidence at all ... well, I can't stop you typing, I suppose.

Not really interested in responding to the disposable user123456789 account. They're spouting the same style of shite as you so my responses can do both jobs at once.

I visited the Topography of Terror in April and I have a disabled son and I don't agree with you.

Zzzzz what exactly was their policy though? Did she say they didn't do it at that hospital because he had a disability, or because they just didn't do it there anyway? My son had to have GA for that very reason, because they said he was non compliant, but they did do fillings for him. If they told me to go somewhere else 50 miles away, I would go too, what parent wouldn't. I'd be annoyed but if it's their policy, it's their policy. Treatment was still free, which I'm grateful for

Pencils...it's based on common sense, what I read and see every day, and what people around me are saying. Same as yours I should imagine. the UK is made up of many different groups of people. I work in a massive organisation and seriously the people I work with have no undercurrent. As I've said, you clearly think there is and that's fine, but just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me ignorant.

And pencil it's a discussion about what we think is happening in the UK, just because you think you are right does not actually mean you are. The world is made up of millions of people who all have different opinions.

Pencils...it's based on common sense, what I read and see every day, and what people around me are saying.

So no solid data or evidence then.

Same as yours I should imagine.

No I tend to go on govt. reports and statistics, independent reports, well referenced reports commissioned by charities etc. Stuff that is openly published that people can challenge (if they have something beyond 'I'm entitled to my opinion').

I don't think disabled people in Nazi Germany were treated as well as they are here? Weren't we the first Country in the world to have a benefits state and a free healthcare system?

I believe Germany was the first with both of them. The German welfare state began in the 1840s and universal health insurance came in in 1883.

The government wants the population to be poor, because a poor population is easier to control

Zzzzzzz...did she say it was because he was disabled.....or not? Or would other non compliant children who are not disabled also have got turned away?

Kursk....if the govt wanted everyone to be poor, they would get no money off us in taxes surely? Most govts want to govern a prosperous nation.

I think the Powers That Be prefer a populace that does not question much, is fed and entertained so less motivated to revolt.

Bread and circus....

IMO that is why all the totally vacuous reality TV is so popular and so ubiquitous.

"It's like the Truman Show we just live inside a bubble."

Yes agreed.