How many breaks/fractures is "normal" for a 3 year old?

[MrsOverTheRoad]

I am a little concerned about someone I know in that their 3 year old has seemingly injured himself very often.

In the past 6 months he has fractured his arm, "broke his sternum" and had a fall in which he hurt his other arm quite badly but which the Mother didn't get checked out...she said she was worried about social services considering his other recent injuries.

The arm fracture occurred, she said when he was with his Grandparent...I spoke to the grandparent and they confirmed this. The sternum break when he ran into the corner of a table and the arm injury when he fell off a child's slide in their garden.

Is this a lot or pretty normal for an active boy?

The only reason I do have concerns is that when I have spent some time with him, he's shouted at me in a very adult way..."acted out" being agressive if you will.

Lots of "NO! YOU DON'T DO THAT!" etc in a loud shouty voice with finger wagging..again this could be normal but my DC never did it so I don't know.

But he otherwise seems happy and healthy...another person close to his Mother said that he worried that his Mum was agressive to him in the way she spoke to him.

Writing it all down it seems like an obvious "Tell someone" situation but it's hard to tell when you're closeish to the family.

Oh and I fractured my leg at 19 months, apparently I was walking down the stairs without paying attention and thought I was at the bottom but wasn't, so the last step was unexpected and meant I landed awkwardly on my leg. I apparently I didn't cry and my mum put me to bed that night as usual, and I when I got up the next morning I couldn't stand up!
We were told that toddler fractures are quite common.

Accidents are a fact of life BUT not taking an injured child to be checked out after a painful injury because you were worried about social services is a massive red flag.

This! Both my youngest had had fractures (one each) before they were 3. I also took DS a few weeks back for a suspected broken hip - turned out just to be bruised. It would never occur to me NOT to investigate an injury.

Well i have 3 sons and they have had 3 breaks each but they were a bit older. 4 year old broke his leg age 4 and others were sports injuries - collar bone, wrist, fingers, thumb etc so 9 trips to sick kids. But, if you are worried i would call ss.

I'd really encourage you to call social services directly rather than go via NSPCC. There's not really much point to calling NSPCC instead and is loads harder to act on an NSPCC referral than something that has come direct.

A "toddler's fracture" is a specific fracture of the lower leg. Toddlers and small children are at more likely to sustain "greenstick" or bending / incomplete fractures to their bones due to the bones not being completely hardened yet.

A fractured sternum (breastbone) is quite rare & usually associated with car crashes - that is the sort of force needed to break a child's sternum. The incidence of lung injuries with sternum fractures is very high - because of the amount of force needed to damage the sternum is enough to do serious injuries to the lungs

My DS broke his arm really badly when he was 3, almost needed an operation and had to stay in hospital overnight.

He was on a roundabout and just let go while it was moving, straight break through the bone above the elbow.

He's got absolutely no fear and has chipped both his front teeth through climbing and is constantly covered in cuts and bruises.

No one has ever said I'm abusing my child and neither SS or the HV have ever been to visit.

If you're concerned then call it in, if there's nothing to be worried over then SS will be able to see that.

My stepniece had broken both arms by the time she was three, once in the care of my brother and sister-in-law, then the second 3 months later in the care of her father. I remember at the time being glad she was with her father for the second break, otherwise I bet concerns would have been raised.

I do agree that the red flag isn't that the child has had these injuries so much as treatment wasn't sought for the latest incident. It's also very unwise - if they have to go to hospital for anything else and there's signs of an untreated historic injury, that would immediately cause concern.

I have 3 sons, one broke his arm at 2 one broke his leg at 3. All very active and very very keen on jumping off things (both breaks were caused when they jumped off something) so I don't think it is particularly unusual. When my 2 year old broke his arm I felt awful at the hospital but the doctor told me he had just plastered the leg of a colleagues son, apparently he had a broken leg for a couple of days before his doctor father noticed, now I thought that was unusual.

My son who broke his leg was back at A&E 2 months later to have his hand stitched up, he decided to cut the top of his finger up when a visitor didn't put scissors away.

My other son and daughter managed to get to double figures without stitches or broken bones but just as active only slightly more lucky.

I just wanted to say that multiple injuries doesn't always mean a parent isn't supervising their child properly, let alone hurting them deliberately. My almost four year old has had four a and e visits including 2 broken arms. I have gone over each accident many times, and do believe nothing could have been done to prevent them, short of chaining said child down/continuing to wear him in a sling. For example, age 3 he was sitting having a meal with extended family, he slipped off his chair onto the floor and because he had been biting his lip at the time, he bit right through it.
One arm break was in a soft play(within weeks of lip incident) for under sixes, when he fell from standing(witnessed by my friend). The other was when he was watching tv with his brother while I was making breakfast in the same room. One minute he was sitting on the sofa watching tv, the next, my older son told us he stood up on the arm of the sofa, and fell backwards, putting his arm out at a bad angle to break his fall.
It was horrifying for me that he had had so many injuries. Me and my siblings never had any bone breaks growing up.
At the hospital whenever I expressed concern that their was something wrong with his bones/vitamin deficiency, they said it was perfectly normal and they see lots of toddlers/ young children with broken bones.
Reading so many of these judgemental replies reminds me of other areas of parenting where people can't help judge others based on their own experience. E.g. Well my child always ate well/slept well etc therefore it must be something I did right/ another parent did wrong that caused the problem.
Obviously if you have concerns due to observations of this persons parenting, you must express them, and It does seem worrying that they didn't seek help for the arm incident, but maybe it wasn't serious enough anyway.
I just wanted to say that from my own experience it doesn't follow that because a toddler has broken a bone more than once they must be being abused/neglected/not properly supervised/ have brittle bones etc.

The HV will be informed of every ED attendance.
The trust Named Nurse should review all child attendances at ED and consider them from a child safeguarding perspective.
A phone call would do no harm but he's probably on their radar already.

I agree with above poster, often it can just be " the way they fall " and nothing more.
I'm pretty sure the hospital if they had any concerns would have followed it up and health visitors informed too and alerted if any follow up needed to be made their end. The only part that's worrying is the not taking him to hospital out of fear of social services becoming involved. But it depends on how she said it, if it was a dry ( not very funny ) joke or actual worry etx

This will be extremely outing to anyone knows me but my just turned 6 year old had had 3 fractures.

She is just recovering from a fractured femur, a really horrendous break which she got from simply falling off her scooter. She broke her wrist age 3 when she fell off a chair and she broke her leg when she was 18 months just running in the house.

2 weeks before the 2nd fracture she was an inpatient having an ENT operation, she then broke her wrist and a week after that while still in plaster she shoved tissue paper so far up her nose she had to go back to ED to get it auctioned out.

Today her friend accidentally closed my car door with DDs whole hand inside. I felt absolutely sick that my poor wee DD had another accident and had to suffer more pain but luckily there was minimum damage and she recovered quickly.

Honestly if you heard about my DD and her multiple fractures you might have your doubts about my parenting skills. But she's just very accident prone and very unlucky. We are waiting a paeds referral to investigate the multiple fractures and also her low weight so fingers crossed there is nothing wrong with her and she's just very unlucky.

@OP i don't want to cause trouble

Then stay out of it and don't be nosey.
Don't be a judgemental mumsnetter

Ds was 4 last week he has broken his arm 3 times in separate incidents. First one at 14 months, the second 4 months later and the 3rd this June. He fell and split the back of his head open on the Thursday and on the following Tuesday we was back at a and e for the 3rd break. Both happened at the same park, my dc are no longer aloud to that park.

He was walking through the kitchen yesterday tripped over his own feet and fell hitting his forehead on the corner of the Hoover. Bump and a little cut there this morning.

He is a very clumsy child if anyone saw him with no clothes on I'm sure they would question the bruises he has constantly got on the back of his legs he always seems to fall landing on something that causes bruises on his thighs.

Ss did visit after the first 2 breaks. Was an unannounced visit and they saw the flat and both kids at home. They spoke to dd who was 5 at the time and asked what sort of things they do with mummy and daddy.

I ended up going to tablets for my anxiety that revolved around ds and his accidents abd the visit from ss.
The first time I built myself up to take them to the park after all that I was so busy being glued to ds that dd fell and split her leg open. Accidents happen but it doesn't make you a shit parent not getting them medical help does though.

I knew when ds had broke his arm each time from his cry and because I was the same as a child broke my arm 3 times within a year.

Luckily I'm first aid trained for my job which people laugh about woth my 2 kids. Dd has also broke her wrist and her elbow.

Each time I dreaded going to a&e but I always did.

Neutrogene, Victoria Climbie died because nobody wanted to cause trouble.

Breaking the sternum is a pretty normal injury if you have a bicycle accident (it happened to me), so I'd say one does not need to get overly concerned about the sternum.

But THREE breaks? Certainly

"I just wanted to say that multiple injuries doesn't always mean a parent isn't supervising their child properly, "

Oh, it absolutely doesn't mean that at all. However, as a stand alone factor, or alongside other factors it is at time an indicator of neglect and abuse.

I'm pretty sure the hospital if they had any concerns would have followed it up and health visitors informed too and alerted if any follow up needed to be made their end.

'Pretty sure' isn't good enough with vulnerable people. I worked on a children's cat unit and one of the staff members was always in with her son, and even she got referred to the social services by one of her colleagues. Usually they refer you if you've been in with your child too many times or if they're concerned about an injury, however I wouldn't trust that this is always flagged up when it's a very busy day and perhaps someone else had to do the admission who wouldn't usually etc. Report what you know and hope they have the resources to look into it thoroughly. If you have doubts again then report it again.

@MMXV I totally get where you are coming from though - it just seems so unusual that a child would run into a coffee table with such force. It may well have happened, but to me, and as part of the pattern of what we've been told, it seems odd.

(Now I am thinking of the force an airbag goes off at!).

The sternum accident is from running into a table, that's highly unusual. It's not the injury but how it happened. I'm talking to my brother about this (he wishes I would shut up) but he said if one of his patients came in with this injury from 'a table' he would be highly concerned.

I think the whole not taking him to a&e when he very clearly would have been in pain is the issue rather than # of injuries, some children are more accident prone regardless of how careful parents are.

Have you reported this op?

My DC are wild as are many of their friends - always jumping, running, climbing and throwing themselves off things. Non have ever broken anything and the only children in years I have known break a wrist / arm have been much older and doing contact sports. I'd be concerned

I would be very concerned about this. Especially the fact that they didn't get one of the injuries checked out because of concerns about social services getting involved. That does suggest something to hide. And the acted out aggression is a cause for concern as well.

I would be concerned about the number of injuries as well, and definitely about the broken sternum.

Our DDs haven't had any broken bones as yet but DD1 has had a sprained ankle a couple of times, once at school and once on our trampoline. But she loves gymnastics and is very sporty, so it's not altogether surprising. And she comes home from school regularly with accident forms.

I would definitely say you should call the NSPCC or social services, you can do this anonymously.

Ponder Yep. Exactly. Thanks for reiterating that point.

Relying on someone else to follow up on possible child abuse is never good enough.

When are we all going to learn that?