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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to think it slightly odd that so many of my school mum friends are hung up about secondary schools already, when their kids are only 5!

702 replies

sandyballs · 28/03/2007 15:18

It seems to be the sole topic of conversation lately - how good/bad the local comp is, how extra tuition will be needed for the local grammar etc etc.

The kids are 5/6 years old! Let them be kids!

I'm sure our parents never had all this school angst!

OP posts:
Aloha · 29/03/2007 12:06

CLD, Xenia can do what she bloody likes, it is the revoltingly snobbish, arrogant way she dismisses anyone who doesn't match her template of the perfect human that disgusts me.

motherinferior · 29/03/2007 12:12

CLD, you asked - in a very leading way, as it happens - 'don't you agree with Xenia, really?' I said No. That's the point.

And no, I don't think the inclusion/exclusion positions on education are analagous.

jampot · 29/03/2007 12:12

first of all dont hit me as this is factual and has come from teachers and parents alike but ....

the school my children were at has had an influx of children from a new estate both private and housing association houses. A good proportion of the "original" families have now moved their children due to disruptive behaviour within the school predominantly caused by teh new children. My friend who moved her children bumped into teh nursery teacher the other day and she was saying that she has been told to fuck off and told their stuff is crap by several of the children. One girl said she was going to kill her mum. So much time is taken up by the children being disruptive that the rest of the class who want to learn suffer. Im sorry but thats not what i want for my children

jampot · 29/03/2007 12:15

it is also found that when approaching parents about teh childrens behaviour/language/ homework the parents are just not interested/encouraging at all.

crazylazydaisy · 29/03/2007 12:17

Fair point Aloha and the last thing i am sure Xenia needs or wants is an apologist and i am certainly not volunteering for the role!
It's just Looking at her words behind the "wind up" stuff, I find some points of interest and it makes me think as to how I really feel about my dcs education and things happening in their classes that as an adult I ask myself would I be happy to put up with if it was in say, an office setting?

southeastastra · 29/03/2007 12:24

the local schools will only get better if people send their children there.

FioFio · 29/03/2007 12:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

jampot · 29/03/2007 12:29

hahahahahah yes definitely fio

Lucycat · 29/03/2007 12:33

oh and they do play lacrosse at Manchester grammar.

nuff said

Judy1234 · 29/03/2007 12:39

The comment someone made about upper class being all being bores is obviously a very unfair generalisation. I said look at how that would sound if you said all blacks were bores. Or say all the disabled are etc etc. Generalisations aren't good but it seems fine to bash people who speak like I do but not say gays or the disabled. Very twisted logic that is.....

Getting back on to the point I didn't say the washing machine man wasn't a worthy person but talking to him was like chatting to someone 4 sentences behind - he might have just been a very very slow one. His brain worked so slowly. If I'm deciding who I want to go to dinner with it tends to be people who are clever and who also I get on with like and have things in common with me as we all do. I do a lot of work with someone whose main business in a very big way relates to washing machines.

If I say I want my children in a good school with good exam results and other middle class children and that I'm delighted huge numbers in their schools are indian/hindu, muslim, jewish because of the bit of NW London I live in but that they are mostly from homes where education is prized above all, they will all go to good universities and are all very clever children then isn't that the same as any parent trying to choose the best school for their child based on whatever criteria is important to you whether Catholic ethos, huge range of IQ level, enormous or very narrow social mix, mixed or single sex etc etc

sauce · 29/03/2007 12:40

Don't I know it! We're all obsessed round here. My dd is at a private school & does insane amounts of homework. She's 6, ffs! She got a 5 out of 10 in maths on her report card & I was seriously down about it! It's wrong; too much pressure. She has English, French, spelling, reading, recitation, maths, grammar, poetry, music, art, environment, sports (graded!). Half an hour of homework every evening. So yesterday I let her play outside with her friends & her bike all afternoon. Much better for her.

southeastastra · 29/03/2007 12:44

those blinkin' coaches pee me off though xenia

Judy1234 · 29/03/2007 12:45

Mine have never been or felt pressured at private schools so may just depend on the parents and the children and the school. My 8 year olds get their homework done in about 15 minutes but that might just be their fairly casual attitude towards it.

Lilymaid · 29/03/2007 12:46

Lacrosse is a very popular game in the Cheshire/Manchester area.It is played by men as well as women and is a tough game!

Harryjake · 29/03/2007 12:52

I do wish Xenia would stop going on about 'blacks' and 'gays'. You wouldn't call someone 'a posh' or 'a poor' based on their financial circumstances, just as you shouldn't define someone as 'a black' based on their skin colour. people have more to them than just that you know.

tortoiseSHELL · 29/03/2007 12:53

Going back to a previous point Xenia (I'm not trying to convert you btw, I think that is beyond impossible ) - the secondary school I want ds1 to go to, which is a state school has far better music than the local private schools - they did St John Passion with Rogers C-C a few years back. Sport - don't know, not really my thing. His state primary has an orchestra and choir which do foreign tours pretty much every year. They are linked with a school in Africa, and have regular exchanges of teachers. They have swimming from Y1.

What I'm saying is it is down to the head and the ethos of the school. The only time I have ever been aware of drug taking was at my (private) school (sixth form). That same school promoted drinking among the students - the teachers even took pupils to the pub and clubs. At the other school I went to there were teenage pregnancies.

You can't hide from real life forever, and I don't want it to be a shock to my children when they encounter it.

Psycho · 29/03/2007 12:57

I think crazylady has a point.

Xenia is stating what she feels is 'best' for her children anbd trying to acheieve that.

And Motherinferior is doing the same.

They jsut both have very differing views views on what best is.

I also think that the basis of what Xenia says is true for many parents, many of us do want our children to go to schools where the behaviour is good, thay can reach their full potential, have wide rangiing opportunities and on the whole these things will add up to good results, which is one measure we can use to judge the school.

However, Xenia, the language you use to make these points and some of the justifications are so inflammatory.

'Low IQ' is utterly meaningless, unless we debate the meaning and definition of this and the validity of the tests which measure it (and I speak as someone who spends a large proprtion of my working life measuring adult's and childrens IQ's)

'an accent like mine', once you start talking about accent, you loose any credibilty in most peoples eyes as this just smacks of narrow minded bigotry and is nothing to do with what is best for your children or not.

'Dysfunctional families' is just laughable, the complexity of family life and relationships is not restricted to one class. As some one said,a single mother whose children have minimal contact with their father such as you, would be judged as 'dydfunctional' by many, who could judge that would not wish wish their children to be exposed to families where divorce is the norm. (just as bigoted, but on differnt grounds).

AS you consider yourself to have suvh a high IQ (whatever that means) I am suprised that you are unable to see that your potentially understandable premise, becomes totally invalid and insulting as it is ridden with snobbery narrow mindedness.

caterpiller · 29/03/2007 13:16

Xenia, We have 4 at private school, so I guess I am as worthy as you.... 3 of them are at one of the top ones, but I don't feel the need to mouth off about it all the time. Quite the opposite, I usually keep quiet about it unless I am asked directly, for fear of coming across like you do.
You sound like one fo the mums I would normally avoid tbh. Some of what you say makes sense to me, but you seem to get a kick out of boasting and making people feel inferior. Why?

Judy1234 · 29/03/2007 13:18

hj, it's not really fair to say I've been going on about blacks and gays actually if you read what I wrote.

On the other points this is interesting. I have chosen schools most children can't pass the exams for. Many many more rejected fro mNorth London Collegiate, Habs etc where my girls went than got in, huge dmeand for places etc. Loads of parents able to pay but most children not able to pass the tests. So we do need to agree like say Kent or Bucks Grammar schools the children there are usually in the top say 10 or 20% of intelligence, IQ or whatever you want ot define it. So that's one factor in the kind of school I wanted. If i had a child who was.. well as thick as a plank I might be going to some of those private schools which do very well with that kind of child, have farming courses or all that other stuff, bring out the best in the child in other ways.

But why do people suddenly take umbrage when I mention class though? Is that one issue we can't talk about? Is it worse to say I want a school with well behaved children or with clever or musical children than with children who are middle class and I want to avoid a school where most children are working class? And if so why? Also don't some parents say they're choosing by musical facilities at the school or whatever but by conicidence they end up with a middle class state sschool anyway so they're choosing by class really but not admitting it?

Aloha · 29/03/2007 13:21

I think it is important to say that it is possible to be privately educated and not turn out a nasty, snobbish, narrow minded bigot.

southeastastra · 29/03/2007 13:23

i get the feeling xenia is only saying what most people are thinking

Aloha · 29/03/2007 13:26

Well, it might be what you are thinking, it makes me feel utterly sick.

Judy1234 · 29/03/2007 13:27

cp, don't see it at boasting at all. I think the point from the first post which i was trying to answer is that for some career paths, aims and expectations for your chilren you do need to think about where they go to school at 5 if you want them to emerge in a certain way as adults and get certain types of jobs and if you con yourself into thinking that is not so then you're wrong. So best to know when you have a 5 year old. Certain things we do for our children like having them speak properly, nice manners, ability to get on with other people, education etc affect their lives and school is an important part of that; that's all. I don't have things to show off about at all.

Also it aids understanding, showing how others plan and what matters to some people and not to others. It's by communicating with people different from ourselves we get to understand them.

FioFio · 29/03/2007 13:27

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Message withdrawn

oliveoil · 29/03/2007 13:28

yes but how can you plan your life from so early on?

how do you know where you will be, what you will be doing etc etc?

Shit happens and things change

I would hate to have the next 10 years fixed