... to think it slightly odd that so many of my school mum friends are hung up about secondary schools already, when their kids are only 5!

[sandyballs]

It seems to be the sole topic of conversation lately - how good/bad the local comp is, how extra tuition will be needed for the local grammar etc etc.

The kids are 5/6 years old! Let them be kids!

I'm sure our parents never had all this school angst!

Is Anna a SAHM?? I assumed as her DD had started school she too would be high flying back in the big networking world of intellectual superiors.

Caroline - because I am a girl and I have a family .

Those City-type jobs aren't family friendly in my book... I did one (in fact, I met my partner that way - alumni of the same firm ), I made some £££, but never again.

Lorayn - not many these days .

Oh I am rather late to this thread but can I just say-I am from an ethnic minority where education is indeed highly valued and prized. I went to North London Collegiate and got in at 11 from a state primary. I am 'shock' married to a Scouser who has a Liverpool accent and is also the funniest most intelligent man I have ever met. I plan to eduacte our son privately. I am completely horrified at some of the posts on this thread.

We would all like our children to go to a 'good'school where the child learns to the best of its ability and has a peer group that is a positive influence. That does not equate to private is better than state. And pretending that it does is just plain inaccurate.
I'd absolutely hate my child to be exposed to children with some of the attitudes to those less rich/academically gifted/of a different social'class' that have been expressed here.
At the very least teach your child that they are fortunate to be having the fabulous expensive education and the nice middle class parents but those from other walks of life are of equal value and could potentially enrich their lives. Is this not the message of most world religions?

Anna, they aren't doing a good job then...are they....
[puts rockets up the backsides of those elites in London]

not that that would help getting more teachers, Nurses etc....

LadyG - I am pleased to see that even those from the ethnic minorities are snobs! You say you are paying to manipulate the peer group of your child rather than paying for an education that is superior to the state. How is that so moral?
PS _ How ghastly for you being married to a Scouser (with a Liverpool accent ), I hope you gargle at least thrice daily if you ever kiss him.

3andnomore - well, I suggest you travel a little... to Afghanistan, perhaps, or Sudan.

That might put Western economies in perspective .

"At the very least teach your child that they are fortunate to be having the fabulous expensive education and the nice middle class parents but those from other walks of life are of equal value and could potentially enrich their lives." YES! well said

"Is this not the message of most world religions?" er, no I'm afraid not

"At the very least teach your child that they are fortunate to be having the fabulous expensive education and the nice middle class parents but those from other walks of life are of equal value and could potentially enrich their lives."
but enrich at a distance, NOT in their peer group obviously

Anna...oh I do realise that the western economy is brilliant compared to those you mention...not that undereducated , lol...

however...I do still think that it's sad that Jobs like teachers, Nurses, etc...are so underpaid compared to other proffessions...but, that is life, eh....

Er Caroline I think you have misinterpreted me . We all want our children to be in a positive peer group-don't you agree? Positive meaning well er positive. Not negative or belittling educational or other attainment sporting creativity social whatever.
The point I was trying to make without naming names was that I would worry about my sons' peer group having parents with some of the elitist and snobbish attitudes expressed on here ie at the private school I am hoping to send him to. In fact this thread has put me right off.

At the very least meaning that -at the very leas-even if you have incredibly elitist views yourself can you please at least try not to pass them on to your children.
Oh and re my gorgeous Scouse husband was just trying to tell Xenia she could be missing out on a good thing..(ref to her earlier post)

I agree that it is sad that people with good brains, education and training (teachers, nurses etc) who are dedicated to their profession do not have a relatively higher standard of living than they do .

The best way to decrease overall costs in the NHS is for individuals to take greater responsibility for their health, so that the NHS budget can be spent on treating disease and not poor lifestyle choices. Perhaps then nurses could be paid better.

And if children were better behaved and their parents behind them, maybe teachers could be more efficient too and productivity in schools increased.

It's not just up to government or business to improve standards and make things better.

Apologies to bright HR women. Pity so many are women though as it leads to wages being lower and hard to get a board seat if you're in HR etc so I'd generally try to encourage girls away from it. And I think the HR people whether within a big corporate group or whatever tend not to be on the board, and are not the partners in the accountancy firms or earning anything like they do if that matters to you. So I stand by the HR criticism. I'd rather women ran hedge funs and men went into HR and messed around with CVs and soothing those who get in a state at work.

Not sure why we're being accused of being snobby. One of my daughters was at North London too. It's not a snobby school at all. you pay to ensure your child is educated with children who are very clever and has a huge range of hobbies and activities to choose from. If parents are paying they tend to be more committed to education than those who could afford to pay but instead get their hair done more often or drive silly cars.

As for testing chilren at a young age schools have got much better at this. Some that used to test at 11 found they could assess potential as well at 7 years and even at 5 as at 11. I don't see why they shouldn't therefore do their testing then rather than at 11 if they find it works.

agree with you there Anna

FF, I always thought something like forensics would be a really interesting job.

OR, they dont get places on boards because so many people think (mistakenly)like you, Xenia?

You absolutely must see the irony in these "thick HR girls" whom you think not particularly bright, are the ones who end up saying "yay" or "nay" to someone who has a far better education and greater intelligence than themselves!
Ha! That's made me smile this afternoon....

I was mad-keen on forensics. Fascinating subject. I know several people who have studied it.

lots of really good educated comments on here - sadly not from Xenia or Anna though

whilst I thoroughly enjoy programmes like NCIS and CSI and thinks like that...don't think I would like to work in forencis myself...although it does look very interesting of course...

Gosh LieselVentouse that was a well thought out, articulate contribution to this debate

i thought so too, and didnt have to use cartoons to make point either

there wasnt a two fingered emoticon

Xenia - "run a hedge fun"- count me in!

I'm so glad I chose my dd's lovely state primary school over the private one that she got into. She was on the class list with contact details at the private, I keep getting phone calls adn emails from all these ghastly hectoring women trying to make me DO THINGS and meet up with them argh
ad they all sound the same, shrieky and sloaney and dull and teh things are all at blimming 11am or something, I mean surely SOME of them work ffs. I LOVE saying "oh sorry actually we turned babydrac's place down in favour of state primary" and there is usually a sharp intake of breath....

I went to a meeting at dd's school last night
the parents were so delightful.

Again I heaved a huge sigh of relief

OK but how would 'increasing productivity in schools' lead to a higher standard of living for teachers?