... to think it slightly odd that so many of my school mum friends are hung up about secondary schools already, when their kids are only 5!

[sandyballs]

It seems to be the sole topic of conversation lately - how good/bad the local comp is, how extra tuition will be needed for the local grammar etc etc.

The kids are 5/6 years old! Let them be kids!

I'm sure our parents never had all this school angst!

Oh but Anna you do care. Don't you?

there you go then, I guess I just don't talk to those people!

Sino = Chinese

Sino-American = Chinese and American

like

Franco-American = French and American
Anglo-American = English and American

etc

thanks for explanation...I knew franco-american, and anglo-american btw...so all is not lost...just never had heard sino-american

put in context, I only know 2 people who have sent their kids to private school, and i only really talk to mothers at the school, whose kids are at school and are almost certainly not going to go private - so I guess that skews it. And the high schools seem pretty much the same and people determine on catchment.

Caroline - yes, of course I care, and I kept my daughter at home with me until she started school three weeks ago.

All French children start pre-school in the September of the calendar year in which they reach their third birthday. Since my daughter was born in November, she was just under three when she started attending a group educational setting. That seems fine to me. Some of the children who were born earlier in the year have attended a few months of nursery because they were getting bored at home, and I can understand that - my daughter would have been bored at home had she had to wait until 3 and 8 months to start school.

In Belgium, children start pre-school when they are 2 and a half ie they don't wait until the beginning of a school year.

In the Uk, I believe children can start pre-school the term after their third birthday, this is normally five 2 1/2 hour sessions a week.

Anna - I thought that the body of research supported the fact that pre - 5 there was no benefit to formal education over mother and toddler type sessions but there was a benefit to formal education over no group social activities whatsoever with other children (I think this sample are nearly impossible to find these days and perhaps live very rurally or some other soicial isolation factor is at play).

Anna, you are much clearer now: "If you put a mix of fantastic brains, medium brains and mediocre brains in each university, ie spreading the brain power, the best students won't go so far academically.

It's the critical mass that creates the élite of movers and shakers that keeps human development and society moving forward."

Oh Anna, you are just describing the old boys' network. Look at where the Tory party are now [snurk], for example. They help themselves, yes, but not necessarily society. It is diversity and inclusion that spawns true progress, not snouts in the trough.

I wish what you said were true. But I would be naive and idealistic.

And I work in the City of London, where arguably (big emphasis) some of the best brains are concentrated. There is exchange of ideas and progress, no doubt, in power and wealth accumulation, but not always for society as a whole. Sorry, I disagree.

Caroline - everything that I read generally supports the idea that it is better preparation for school if children have already learned all the social skills associated with being in a group setting with one adult authority figure before starting on formal learning.

So, two or three years of nursery school / pre-school can teach children about discipline, order, how to sit down, listen to adults, concentrate, obey orders, hold a pencil, get on with their peers, defend themselves etc etc.

Children who go into school "cold" from only being with mother (albeit sometimes in a group setting) don't know many of these things.

blueshoes - I think that the City benefits society hugely.

Of course, individuals benefit on the way - people who do big responsible jobs that create huge value deserve juicy rewards (or they wouldn't bother).

{shock] at little 3-year olds learning to defend themselves.

Very important skill, self-defence . I don't want my child to be bullied.

Thats why there is compulsory reception class for age 4/5.
So the things they do not yet know can be taught before proper lessons begin.

My children already knew discipline, order, how to sit down, listen to adults, concentrate and obey orders before they started school.
As for social interaction within the peer group, it doesnt matter what age that starts, they are always learning.

Anna, I can feel much better about my job in the City then? Not some atavistic moneygrubbing capitalist.

The City benefits the UK only incidentally in taxes and attracting talent. The City is so phenomenally successful because it is blind to schools/postcode snobbery. The truly bulge bracket firms (I mean the Goldman Sachs of this world) have every nationality working for them. Yes, they concentrate the brain power to create, I shall use your term, cirtical mass, but if they relied on the old boys' network, they would not be as rich in ideas and talent as they are. This is what I mean by diversity spawning progress. I still don't see how society benefits in the true sense beyond their taxes, and even then that is arguable as some sectors like private equity seem to get off scotfree.

The key to success is to let talent and intelligence grow and flourish in whichever form and setting. Then to cast one's net widely and then put them all together in a room for a true flowering of ideas. Not to have a cradle to grave school system that produces Mr handshake, wink and nod.

obviously nursing is not a huge job, but certianly a nurse carries quite huge responsibility...and many otehr jobs are the same, important....sadly money does not always reflect teh importance of a job

I agree 3andnomore,
Also who decided that the most intelligent people are best running companies??
I am sure that many of the intellectual genius' would be utter tripe at running a company, it takes more than the ability to get good grades and mummy and daddy's money to be a good boss.

blueshoes - I have plenty of friends (former classmates) who work at Goldman Sachs etc. Those firms are not blind to schools . They just recruit from a world pool of great universities, rather than limiting themselves to the UK.

Society (UK and elsewhere) benefits from the city because it is the financial powerhouse of business. In addition, taxation from the city (corporate and individual) contributes to the UK economy, and the individuals who work there are highly paid and create demand for products and services in the UK.

3andnomore - sure, we need nurses. But we first need money to pay for them - so society first needs to create value through business.

All the lovely things that developed countries take for granted - schools, roads, hospitals, doctors, nurses etc - are luxuries that we can afford because we have successful business. No business, no services. It's that simple.

I live in Bicester, Oxfordshire, we have a retail village here which sells designer clothes at warehouse prices.
The people that work in these shops are your average Joe Schmoes But it does a lot for business in my town, and contributes a lot, as do the hundreds of chinese tourists that come here daily purely for shopping.
Not everything that contributes to our economy involves top class universities.

Lorayn - sure.

But you can bet that at the head office of all those retail companies that have outlets at Bicester Village are intelligent, hard-working businessmen with great networks. You know, I even know some of them

Anna - So how come your former classmates work for Goldman Sachs and the like and you are sitting on your arse as a SAHM ?

Anna - When you say you come from a bilingual family - what language as a matter of interest?

Anna, some of them will just be people who started as a shop assistant and worked themselves up.

Caroline - I don't come from a bilingual family, but I had a bilingual education. My daughter lives in a bilingual family though and will have a bilingual education.

French.